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President Obama vs Mitt Romney

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Deadaim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Deadaim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: President Obama vs Mitt Romney
    Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 8:43am
Originally posted by Sk-iller

Not even Jesus could fix the U.S in four years.
 
the UK is fkd beyond repair.
 
meanwhile the USA still runs the entire f***ing world.
 
so yes.. I see your envy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 9:01am
Originally posted by ax412

Lol Pinn you comment about Economist was amusing... you know the phrase.
You could line up every Economist around the world and you wouldn't find any two that agree.
So there are scores who agree with you and scores who disagree.
Not an attack at you, just an observation. I have deep respect for you.
 
Understood. Then remove the term "economists" from my statement and plug "credit rating agencies". Seems like all of the financial rating agencies agree that the the American financial rating is ins sharp decline. S&P downgraded us (which to this day if one of the most painful things I've seen). It's one of the most respected American financial rating agencies and they beleive that as a result of the 50% increase to our debt over the past 4 years, that America is no longer AAA rated. Ever wonder why our US Dollar is tanking? That is outrageous.
 
And I didn't take it as an attack. This is all good conversation.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 9:10am
Originally posted by chisox666

The idea behind taxing the wealthy less so they can create more jobs is a sound economic argument but based on pure speculation. It can only be proven with time. Taxing the wealthy less might also result in bigger yachts, plastic surgery for the wife, accelerated visits to the high price hookers, etc.. I'm willing to bet on the latter. One could argue that the latter also is consumer spending which helps drive the economy, but the Fed has to trim even more spending (when it already has an insane amount of trimming to do!) to compensate for less tax revenue from the wealthy.
 
Romney's 20% tax reduction of all the brackets seems a bit excessive to me.

Tax loopholes (which romney wants and obama doesn't) need to be tightened for corporations and individuals. Romney gets away with a 14.1% income tax rate (in 2011) on $13.6 million. The 10 most profitable corporations paid an average income tax rate of 9% in 2011. I know, mind-boggling...

With that said, Romney will get my vote. He does have some good ideas. Obama will win the election though.  
 
 
Chisox, I hate to break it to you, but every "forecast" that these plans and budgets are built off of are speculative. However, there are trends and history to support certain claims. Here's how lowering taxes helps the economy - First it puts more money into people's pockets - Since they have more money in their pockets, they buy things like houses, cars, video games, movies, vacations, etc. (all the crap that noone needs, but wants) - Since almost aevery sale transaction is taxed by the US Government, it in turn leads to more transactions, thus more tax dollars being pulled into the Government - That means the Government will have a higher net tax draw than the previous year. This is a known fact that lower taxes will work this way. Hence why Romney proposed it. So here is the offset. It's not just tax loopholes and deducations. They took averages of percentage increases generated by tax decreases over the course of the past 4 years (especially during Reagan's time). Their analysis shows that by decreasing taxes by 20%, it will raise more than $2T than the revenue that the Government is currently taking in. Then you get rid of Obamacare and close loopholesand deductions and what do you know, it is deficit neutral. Deloitte conducted the forecast and this was their determination. Feel free to read through the almost 1000 pages of analysis they conducted on this.
 
As for the 9% corporate tax reference, you do realize that corporations actually have to make money in order to have taxable income? Do you realize that most corporations are in the red over the past 3 years? Stating the average corporate tax rate is simply skewing the picture. Now if Apple and Exxon were paying that much, I'd be outraged. But when you have 75% of corporate America in the gutter, what taxable income is their to pay taxes on? Can you please show the 10 companies you are talking about? I'd like to look them up.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JPINATOR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 9:21am
you guys supposed to be working?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote drdeath2point0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 9:43am
Originally posted by Sk-iller



Not even Jesus could fix the U.S in four years.

This is false, He wouldn't need four years.....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 10:54am
Originally posted by JPINATOR

you guys supposed to be working?
Of course. At the airport waiting for a flight to the East Coast to meet with the Government. Boredom breeds frequent visits to iamgaming.com. On a side note, there is a couple fighting about 5 feet away from me. The women apparently cheated on her husband 6 times (at least that is what he is alleging). There is a young women sitting two seats aways from me and we are cracking up.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JPINATOR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 11:15am
nice, wish I was there

so no future trips to BL2? I wanna crash your parties with Bain
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Post Options Post Options   Quote -DaGoN- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Deadaim

Originally posted by Sk-iller

Not even Jesus could fix the U.S in four years.
 
the UK is fkd beyond repair.
 
meanwhile the USA still runs the entire f***ing world.
 
so yes.. I see your envy.
Oh wow, someone is sensitive here

I don't think he meant to diss you, I understood is as a defense for Obama to those who say that he hasn't done anything about the economy, this takes time, plus the argument "vote for us because Obama couldn't clean up our mess quick enough" isn't exactly flawless..
EDIT: nevermind, haha
I still mean what I said, I think you can say that as a defense for Obama. That doesn't mean I'd vote for him, but yeah
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sk-iller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 11:26am
Originally posted by Deadaim

Originally posted by Sk-iller

Not even Jesus could fix the U.S in four years.
 
the UK is fkd beyond repair.
 
meanwhile the USA still runs the entire f***ing world.
 
so yes.. I see your envy.

where did you learn that, in prison? Probably some documentry trying to make Americans feel good about being American

 

Our economy is in better shape than all our european neighbours and our social structure isn't built on slavery and racism.

 

 

The U.S.A is now playing second fiddle to the likes of China and it's trading block, you've admitted defeat in the middle east and have retreated to Asia. Tell which parts of the world you run?

 

 

In all seriousness America was the leading light of the world under Clinton. Not by an iron fist but by the example of moral integrity that you and you allies (Great Britain included) lost, by chasing the black gold in the Middle East. Were you advising Bush on foreign policy? I knew some mindless thug was.

And no we don't envy America we fear it. We fear the mindless bible belt and idiotic texans who blast first and ask questions later. We fear another Bush!

The biggest threat to world peace isn't North Korea or Iran, it's YOU! And what nuts is people like you, who think with their d*** and their wallet actually run for President & win.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 11:38am
Hey Skiller, what was your country up to before the US entered WWII? I believe it was America's iron fist that saved London from being blonde haired and blue eyed. Not sure you understand US history, and I'm not going to attempt to explain 250 years of history to you. Your arguement is I am right because I say I'm right. In all seriousness, America has been the leading light of the world because we know how to make money and have immense military might. I find it amusing that we are trying to have a conversation with Europeans regarding US Presidency, as if we suddenly need to convince you what is good for our country. Unlike your Parliament that screams at each other daily, we actually respect differences of opinion here. I actually like hearing King's and Feh's points. It's what makes America great. We throw a bunch of ideas out their and we hope to choose the best one. Without the millions of ideas, we wouldn't be who we are today. And before you start criticizing America, please put down your computer, since it's probably running on an American made operating system, stop using Google for you search, turn off your color TV, turn off your alternating current lightbulbs, stop using the internet, turn off your car, stop flying in planes, take off your clothes since they were sewn by sewing machines, don't get your polio vaccine, and stop using any other invention the US has come up with. So instead of criticizing the US, perhaps your should consider how the history of the US has changed your life for the better. Also, doesn't your union have enough problems on their hands?
 
Oh and on China . . . our GDP is growing, even if very slightly. Their GDP was down 30% in 2011. How long do you think China is going to last when American companies pull out and our consumers stop buying their products? Please see Japan circa 1980-1990 and look at how long it has taken to recover.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ax412 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 11:45am
Lol right now, these are the BEST times in the world to borrow. (When Inflation goes up, Who wins? Borrowers or Lenders? The Borrowers do :) ) So if the US Governement is going to borrow from China, I'd rather it did it now. Because the Nominal Interest rate is more or less getting rap3d by the rate of inflation. (which is low) A trillion dollars today will be funny money 30+ years from now.
If you're gonna borrow might as well do it now.

I thought we already knew that America>
Now back to this upcoming election :)

America is awesome because when we borrow money, we BORROW MONEY IN US CURRENCY. So whenever the Fed decides to print more of it, China and Brasil have heart attacks.


Lol somebody wake me up when China finishes their aircraft carrier and then I'll tell them to build 11 more.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote -DaGoN- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 11:50am
A little off topic:
Pinn, I fully respect you and your opinion, I know you like to hear other people's opinion even if they may differ from yours, which is a great thing. And yes America has done great things, of course. They still do good things by stablizing. But at the same time Skiller has a great point, I do believe he is partly right, maybe America is not the biggest threat, but even though it's a great power which has done good, the general american mindset can become unstable and very dangerous quickly, and just because the US is such a damn powerful country, due to it's size just like it's politics and even values, it is such a big potential danger to the world. Let's face it, the United States of America want to police the world and of course, you saved Europes ass before, but if that world police game goes too far..well of course it will sooner or later provoke other unstable forces like Iran too far
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chisox666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Pinnacle

Originally posted by chisox666

The idea behind taxing the wealthy less so they can create more jobs is a sound economic argument but based on pure speculation. It can only be proven with time. Taxing the wealthy less might also result in bigger yachts, plastic surgery for the wife, accelerated visits to the high price hookers, etc.. I'm willing to bet on the latter. One could argue that the latter also is consumer spending which helps drive the economy, but the Fed has to trim even more spending (when it already has an insane amount of trimming to do!) to compensate for less tax revenue from the wealthy.
 
Romney's 20% tax reduction of all the brackets seems a bit excessive to me.

Tax loopholes (which romney wants and obama doesn't) need to be tightened for corporations and individuals. Romney gets away with a 14.1% income tax rate (in 2011) on $13.6 million. The 10 most profitable corporations paid an average income tax rate of 9% in 2011. I know, mind-boggling...

With that said, Romney will get my vote. He does have some good ideas. Obama will win the election though.  
 
 
Chisox, I hate to break it to you, but every "forecast" that these plans and budgets are built off of are speculative. However, there are trends and history to support certain claims. Here's how lowering taxes helps the economy - First it puts more money into people's pockets - Since they have more money in their pockets, they buy things like houses, cars, video games, movies, vacations, etc. (all the crap that noone needs, but wants) - Since almost aevery sale transaction is taxed by the US Government, it in turn leads to more transactions, thus more tax dollars being pulled into the Government - That means the Government will have a higher net tax draw than the previous year. This is a known fact that lower taxes will work this way. Hence why Romney proposed it. So here is the offset. It's not just tax loopholes and deducations. They took averages of percentage increases generated by tax decreases over the course of the past 4 years (especially during Reagan's time). Their analysis shows that by decreasing taxes by 20%, it will raise more than $2T than the revenue that the Government is currently taking in. Then you get rid of Obamacare and close loopholesand deductions and what do you know, it is deficit neutral. Deloitte conducted the forecast and this was their determination. Feel free to read through the almost 1000 pages of analysis they conducted on this.
 
As for the 9% corporate tax reference, you do realize that corporations actually have to make money in order to have taxable income? Do you realize that most corporations are in the red over the past 3 years? Stating the average corporate tax rate is simply skewing the picture. Now if Apple and Exxon were paying that much, I'd be outraged. But when you have 75% of corporate America in the gutter, what taxable income is their to pay taxes on? Can you please show the 10 companies you are talking about? I'd like to look them up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/most-profitable-corporations-tax-rate_n_1746817.html

Read the above article Pinnacle and you will find that Exxon and Apple represent 1/5 of the 10 most profitable U.S. corporations that are paying an average income tax rate of 9%. Exxon Mobil only sent 2% of its $73.3 billion dollars earned to the IRS.

get fragged

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 11:56am
Chisox, I'm going to look up their SEC filing to see why this is the case. Thanks for sharing the article. I'll have a response shortly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by -DaGoN-

A little off topic:
 Let's face it, the United States of America want to police the world and of course, you saved Europes ass before, but if that world police game goes too far..well of course it will sooner or later provoke other unstable forces like Iran too far
I'm not sure that's the sentiment of the American people. We don't want to police the world. However, since we have been constantly under attack since 2001, I believe the instinctual reaction is to kill the people that are screwing with us. That said, noone I know supports war. You see, my belief is that these extremist hate America, not because we oppose Islam (which we don't), but because they have a view that the world should obey their way of life or die. And America seems to be standing in their way. That is why they are constantly messing with us. As for the masses, I think our whole country is tired of war. We just want to concentrate on ourselves and our families and make our lives better.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ax412 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Pinnacle

Originally posted by -DaGoN-

A little off topic:
 Let's face it, the United States of America want to police the world and of course, you saved Europes ass before, but if that world police game goes too far..well of course it will sooner or later provoke other unstable forces like Iran too far
I'm not sure that's the sentiment of the American people. We don't want to police the world. However, since we have been constantly under attack since 2001, I believe the instinctual reaction is to kill the people that are screwing with us. That said, noone I know supports war. You see, my belief is that these extremist hate America, not because we oppose Islam (which we don't), but because they have a view that the world should obey their way of life or die. And America seems to be standing in their way. That is why they are constantly messing with us. As for the masses, I think our whole country is tired of war. We just want to concentrate on ourselves and our families and make our lives better.
Yup.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sk-iller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:03pm

Pin the post was aimed at DEADLAME not you. I have deliberately avoided replying to the many posts of yours that I disagree with because you are my friend & fall into the category of people that think with their wallets (neo con).

 

And if your best comeback is a cheap shot about the WW2 which happened way before any of us or our fathers was born is the best you got, then your argument is monumentally weak. Why don’t I start up about how we created your country or some other sh!t that has absolutely nothing to do about Americas failed foreign policy under the Bush administration which crashed the world economy and stripped the western world of any moral leadership.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by ax412

Lol right now, these are the BEST times in the world to borrow. (When Inflation goes up, Who wins? Borrowers or Lenders? The Borrowers do :) ) So if the US Governement is going to borrow from China, I'd rather it did it now. Because the Nominal Interest rate is more or less getting rap3d by the rate of inflation. (which is low) A trillion dollars today will be funny money 30+ years from now.
If you're gonna borrow might as well do it now.

I thought we already knew that America>
Now back to this upcoming election :)

America is awesome because when we borrow money, we BORROW MONEY IN US CURRENCY. So whenever the Fed decides to print more of it, China and Brasil have heart attacks.


Lol somebody wake me up when China finishes their aircraft carrier and then I'll tell them to build 11 more.
Phant, borrowing from other countries are not the same as borrowing from a bank. The interest rate you are talking about applies to borrowing in the US. When a country borrows from another country, it's not just an interest rate you worry about, but also all of the offsets that are in place to borrow, which is why, for example, this administration is unwilling to push the DMCA on China. This costs the US billions in lost revenue. China has explicitly stated that if America is going to impose it's intellectual property laws on China, China won't lend.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by Sk-iller

Pin the post was aimed at DEADLAME not you. I have deliberately avoided replying to the many posts of yours that I disagree with because you are my friend & fall into the category of people that think with their wallets (neo con).

And if your best comeback is a cheap shot about the WW2 which happened way before any of us or our fathers was born is the best you got, shut the F u K up! Why don’t I start up about how we created your country or some other sh!t that has absolutely nothing to do about Americas failed foreign policy under the Bush administration which crashed the world economy and stripped the western world of any moral leadership.

I think with my wallet because it is an indicator of how much hard work I have put in. I went from almost being homeless as a young teenager to having the luxury of supporting my family and having the ability to do most things that I want. I will not sacrifice that for anything. And on my goals every year is giving 15% of what I make to charities. I paid 37% effective tax last year and gave 15% to charity. Over half of what I made went to someone or something else. I believe that's more than enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:11pm
Anyways, I'm out for a few days. Good chatting with you guys. I actually am enjoying the good conversation. See you this weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sk-iller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Pinnacle

Originally posted by Sk-iller

Pin the post was aimed at DEADLAME not you. I have deliberately avoided replying to the many posts of yours that I disagree with because you are my friend & fall into the category of people that think with their wallets (neo con).

And if your best comeback is a cheap shot about the WW2 which happened way before any of us or our fathers was born is the best you got, then your argument is monumentally weak. Why don’t I start up about how we created your country or some other sh!t that has absolutely nothing to do about Americas failed foreign policy under the Bush administration which crashed the world economy and stripped the western world of any moral leadership.

I think with my wallet because it is an indicator of how much hard work I have put in. I went from almost being homeless as a young teenager to having the luxury of supporting my family and having the ability to do most things that I want. I will not sacrifice that for anything. And on my goals every year is giving 15% of what I make to charities. I paid 37% effective tax last year and gave 15% to charity. Over half of what I made went to someone or something else. I believe that's more than enough.
Good. I don't denie that thinking with your wallet or d*** has benifits but problems start when you try and apply that to the world stage. Speak 2 u soon Pin
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Post Options Post Options   Quote -DaGoN- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Pinnacle

Originally posted by -DaGoN-

A little off topic:
 Let's face it, the United States of America want to police the world and of course, you saved Europes ass before, but if that world police game goes too far..well of course it will sooner or later provoke other unstable forces like Iran too far
I'm not sure that's the sentiment of the American people. We don't want to police the world. However, since we have been constantly under attack since 2001, I believe the instinctual reaction is to kill the people that are screwing with us. That said, noone I know supports war. You see, my belief is that these extremist hate America, not because we oppose Islam (which we don't), but because they have a view that the world should obey their way of life or die. And America seems to be standing in their way. That is why they are constantly messing with us. As for the masses, I think our whole country is tired of war. We just want to concentrate on ourselves and our families and make our lives better.
I wouldn't even say that it's the majority of the people that want to police the world, but the Government itself. Of course, this is where democracy fails, not only in the US though but also here. It might be that the amount of US citizens who think that way is still a little too high but I believe you that it's not the majority. That was badly phrased, my bad.
And of course they have that view, it's kind of why they are considered extremists. And they do need a certain amount of control, sure I fully agree. My point was just that this is a very unstable situation which can escalate very quickly, and that plus the might of the US, the military force and political influence, makes America potentially extremely dangerous

Oh, and see you then Pinn, nice talking. You're a respectable person you know
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JPINATOR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by -DaGoN-

the general american mindset can become unstable and very dangerous quickly


Yes, those Americans that, because of their religion, feel the need to fly airplanes into buildings or storm other countries embassys and kill people. Other countries turn to violence when there is a youtube video.. or a Koran burning, anything that disrespects their beliefs and or country. You want to know how many times I've seen our American flag burned? countless!! do we storm embassys.. do we run out in the streets in mass chaos? Even when our hockey team loses the Stanley Cup we don't run out and trash our own city lol.. we are dangerous people over here, our Apple Pies are to DIE FOR!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote -DaGoN- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by JPINATOR

Originally posted by -DaGoN-

the general american mindset can become unstable and very dangerous quickly

Yes, those Americans that, because of their religion, feel the need to fly airplanes into buildings or storm other countries embassys and kill people. Other countries turn to violence when there is a youtube video.. or a Koran burning, anything that disrespects their beliefs and or country. You want to know how many times I've seen our American flag burned? countless!! do we storm embassys.. do we run out in the streets in mass chaos? Even when our hockey team loses the Stanley Cup we don't run out and trash our own city lol.. we are dangerous people over here, our Apple Pies are to DIE FOR!!!
haha LOL
Well I basically meant that general world police play :P I know it's not the people themselves, just like most european countries you are better than that. And we have the same problem with stormed embassies here too, sure it's a shame.
Dem extremists
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JPINATOR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 12:28pm
ahh.. I see.. LOL
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