Health Reform |
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Ether404
Forum Moderator The Jackhammer Joined: 20 Feb 2009 Location: Freaking Jersey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1293 |
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Topic: Health Reform Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 11:54pm |
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can anyone put this entire Health Reform into context? i'm doing my research and it's still a bit cloudy to me.
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If Gravity is a "P" and the Sun is an "H", it makes a FFFFFFF.
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Aquaknot
Godlike Member Wheres my sock?! Joined: 22 Feb 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 778 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 6:32am | |
It should be cloudy. The final Bill was only published for 72 hours before it was voted on.
The White House website has a link to some pretty good detail.
I'll add links to this post as I find them:
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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-- Thomas Jefferson |
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Fluffy Fluffington
Team Deep The Fluffer Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Location: USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2065 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 9:45am | |
heres some context:
In the next 10-20 years your taxes will go up masssivley to pay for it. (if not we'll end up like Greece, defaulting on our debt and at the mercy of another country to bail us out)
You'll be waiting in long lines to get basic health care.
EDIT:
Heres a great piece from the NYTimes on hows this will bankrupt the country:
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BAIN
Forum Moderator Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Location: New Eden Online Status: Offline Posts: 3503 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 12:38pm | |
More backroom deals and lies from the Democrats. At least with the Republicans you know what their agenda is.
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Deadaim
[qM] Joined: 21 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1791 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 1:15pm | |
im disgusted by this bill.. by the process in which it was passed and by how the american people were completely ignored. as of this day forward the obama administration has failed me and i look forward to voting against every democrat i can come november. and obama will be out in 2012.
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Dr4g0v
Team Devil Stinger Noob Joined: 31 May 2009 Location: France -Le HAVR Online Status: Offline Posts: 2248 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 1:58pm | |
I've heard this in my TV today ....
I would say some of my things with my bad english. THANKS YOU ! Give to everyone a chance to have a pretty good santy. Thanks you OBAMA. It isn't communist. That reform give a good idea of the American in the world. The next problem would be the obesity ? or The stupid war in Afghanistan ? |
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Deadaim
[qM] Joined: 21 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1791 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 2:29pm | |
dragov, it does help the needy that is true.. but when the american people are overwhelmingly against it and the politicians push their own agenda.. its bull****.
it also hurts some of the needy, not everyone needs health insurance.. guess what now they do.. i went from age 15 or so to age 24 without one hospital visit, with no health insurance.. how the govt is telling people they have to have it. that they have to pay for it, and the people who already dont pay for anything, are going to be getting it for free.
its bad enough we extended unemployment benefits.. we have half a country that wants the other half to support them.
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Dr4g0v
Team Devil Stinger Noob Joined: 31 May 2009 Location: France -Le HAVR Online Status: Offline Posts: 2248 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 2:39pm | |
I don't know who thats working in Usa. But in France we have the best healt service in the world.
Certainly, there is a debt 12billions of €uro but it works well. The principle is: People give what works some of their wages for "SECU" and most medicaments are reimbursed fully or partly by the "secu" The problem is when there are more unemployed or retired people than working people... |
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BAIN
Forum Moderator Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Location: New Eden Online Status: Offline Posts: 3503 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 3:14pm | |
You have to have more people pulling the wagon than you have riding on it. Simple fact.
Obama promised transparency in his administration. This health bill was passed by back room deals and by bribing representatives with political favors. 55% of Americans are against this. Whatever happened to "For the people" ?
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Deadaim
[qM] Joined: 21 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1791 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 3:17pm | |
exactly bain |
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Dr4g0v
Team Devil Stinger Noob Joined: 31 May 2009 Location: France -Le HAVR Online Status: Offline Posts: 2248 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 3:22pm | |
egoism or communism? this is the question ...
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Deadaim
[qM] Joined: 21 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1791 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 3:38pm | |
the answer is socialism, unfortunately
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Zellot
Team iAM Zellraiser Joined: 17 Nov 2008 Location: Hell if I Know Online Status: Offline Posts: 2355 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 10:50pm | |
come on bain both parties do backroom deals and lies it's politics you have to have that, thats the only way things get moved in Washington d.c. .
now i don't really know that much about the bill but i would like to read the whole thing my self (yes i know it's like a thousand and some odd pages long) but i rather get it straight from the horse's mouth instead of listening to hear say from the radio and others that would cloud my judgement about something i never really saw/read myself, cause that would just be crazy. so if anyone can actually find the bill and post a link to it that would be cool.
now i just really hope that if this thing passes that it actually helps people and the government and doesn't really hurt us economically, and yes that just me speaking blind faith but it'll be blind ignorance to think differently.
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HanFei
Team KmA Joined: 26 Apr 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 798 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 11:08pm | |
Although these graphs aren't directly related to the bill, I hope they are able to frame US health care.
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GIO_2064
Team Termanation Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 228 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 12:28am | |
some great info guys!!
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BAIN
Forum Moderator Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Location: New Eden Online Status: Offline Posts: 3503 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 1:59pm | |
Our taxes are going to go up to pay for this. There is no way around that.
Starting this year, children can remain on their parents insurance policy until age 26. Insurance premiums will have to rise to pay for this.
Starting in 2011, drug makers face an annual fee of $2.5 million and it goes up every year after that. They aren't going to pay for it out of their pockets, are they? In 2013 there will be an excise tax of 2.9% placed on the sale of medical equipment. We the people will be paying for this also. These are just a few examples of why this bill will end up costing most Americans more. That means less money to spend on other things like house payments, college education, etc. John McCain had the best plan. Give everyone tax credits to buy health insurance. But then the government wouldn't get it's hands on all those trillions of dollars, would they? |
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Dr4g0v
Team Devil Stinger Noob Joined: 31 May 2009 Location: France -Le HAVR Online Status: Offline Posts: 2248 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 9:24am | |
It would be wiser to give money in the health reform than in the useless army. Just my point of view...
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HanFei
Team KmA Joined: 26 Apr 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 798 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 8:52pm | |
haha, US spends sooo much money on "defense." |
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Fluffy Fluffington
Team Deep The Fluffer Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Location: USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2065 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 10:27pm | |
less than 5% of GDP goes to defense.
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Aquaknot
Godlike Member Wheres my sock?! Joined: 22 Feb 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 778 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 7:12am | |
Here's what bugs me...
This country seems to think that the wealthy are evil somehow and they obtained their wealth on the backs of others. While this may be the case in a very few exceptions, the reality is that it's simply not true.
Without the wealthy, there are no jobs. Without jobs, there are no paychecks. If you tax the wealthy out of existence. the result is a total collapse of the American economy. Margaret Thatcher put it this way; "The problem with Socialism is that eventually, you run out of the other guy's money".
Although I'm not an expert on the Constitution, I personally have a problem with the "Individual Mandate". This is the part where the Government dictates that you WILL purchase a good or service from a private company or face fines. If you don't pay the fines, you can go to jail. Never in the history of this country has the Federal Government forced the citizens to participate in Commerce. Nowhere in the Consitituion is this authority given to the Federal Government. It is, however, a power reserved for the states. For example, you state may force the purchase of auto insurance, but then again, driving is a choice. Simply being alive is not.
I have a problem with the part of the law that give the IRS "real time access" to my bank accounts and financial records. This section also authorizes the IRS to share my persnal tax and financial data with the Department of Health. What happens when I am old and dying? If I am in long term care, is there a trigger that allows the Government to sieze all of my assets to pay for the long term care similar to what happens in Canada? Or is this an amendment ot the law that will come in the future?
Finally, what about the bald faced lie about the cost? They took out the $230,000,000,000 "Doctor Fix" so the Bill would come in under 1,000,000,000,000 (that's trillion!). The Dems are now working to pass the Doctor Fix as a separate matter. What a sickening and disgusting joke.
I could rant about this for hours, but then I would be painted as an evil conservative who hates the poor, has no Christian values and doesn't ewant to see the "little people" get insurance. All for having a different opinion regarding how this should have been handled.
Another small piece of America died this week-
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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-- Thomas Jefferson |
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HanFei
Team KmA Joined: 26 Apr 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 798 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 9:48am | |
Correct, it's ~4.7% ($663 billion) of GDP, which is more than the separate GDPs of 206 of 227 countries. That's slightly more than the entire output of the people of Norway or Saudi Arabia. Compared to other "safe" countries, the US allocates a disproportionally large amount towards "defense." Sources: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy09/pdf/budget/defense.pdf https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html |
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Fluffy Fluffington
Team Deep The Fluffer Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Location: USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2065 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 10:08am | |
Absolute dollars need to be put into context.
As a % of our out put we spend a reasonable amount on Defence.
Our economy is massive and we need to protect our interests. The one job that the federal government is designed to do constitutionally is national defense.
Furthermore, our defense spending as a % of GDP and as a % of our budget has been in LONG TERM DOWNTREND sine WWII.
China, on the other hand, is growing their defense budget at a 20% clip !!
(especially on their air force and Navy lately which are designed to PROJECT power not defend the borders)
The Chinese government has no problem rolling out their tanks over their own people, nor do they have a problem arming Sudan (who exports 80% of their energy output to china) to commit genocide in Darfur, or crushing protest in Tibet.
Our Defense budget is money well spent. Unfortunately, the reality is Obama is spending money like a drunken sailor, doubling down on a broken health care system. We will have NO CHOICE but to cut defense spending!
Guess what china will do? cut? I dont think so!
Guess Who owns most of our national debt? CHINA
Guess who we have to borrow money from to pay for Obama Care? CHINA
When the piper comes calling, and we have to pay our massive debt, we will cut our defense spending to pay our debts to a well armed China!
Congradulations!
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BAIN
Forum Moderator Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Location: New Eden Online Status: Offline Posts: 3503 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 10:42am | |
I would much rather my tax money go to the creation and sustaining of jobs in the military and defense industry than to people who don't even try to improve their lives.
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Deadaim
[qM] Joined: 21 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1791 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 11:26am | |
+1
+1
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Dr4g0v
Team Devil Stinger Noob Joined: 31 May 2009 Location: France -Le HAVR Online Status: Offline Posts: 2248 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 3:24pm | |
For informatino what is the usa school budget ?
France's school buget are : teaching public school: 17.6 billion life of the student: 3.8 billion teaching public school : 29 billion Private Education: 7 billion |
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