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The Obama Deception
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iAM_NotImpressed View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Aug 2009 at 2:58am
oh my jesus. i feel dumber for having read any of this.

at least it wasn't in the "i'm so smart" sub-forum.
The worst of the best.
PS3 = YLOD
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Originally posted by iAM_NotImpressed

oh my jesus. i feel dumber for having read any of this.

at least it wasn't in the "i'm so smart" sub-forum.
Why?
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Posts: 156 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iAM_NotImpressed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2009 at 3:27am
too lazy to multi-quote.

the only things of any intellectual interest is the information on the Fed.

On a side note, Alan Greenspan was viewed as the greatest economic mind for 20 years as the Fed chairman.  Now, everyone thinks he did everything wrong.

Discuss.
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Posts: -998930 		Post Options Post Options   Quote COKKENBALLS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2009 at 4:00am
Originally posted by iAM_NotImpressed

too lazy to multi-quote.

the only things of any intellectual interest is the information on the Fed.

On a side note, Alan Greenspan was viewed as the greatest economic mind for 20 years as the Fed chairman.  Now, everyone thinks he did everything wrong.

Discuss.
George Bush did it. The same machine he used to change the weather in N.O. was used to turn Alan Greenspan into Alan Alda.
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Originally posted by COKKENBALLS

Originally posted by HanFei

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change releases yearly peer reviewed reports from scientists around the world.  This is neither political, bad science, nor pseudoscience.
http://www.ipcc.ch/
I hope these aren't the same scientists that came up with global cooling.
Page 4 in the the link below shows that while parts of the globe decreased in temperature  from 1970, overall surface temperatures have increased.
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/a**essment-report/ar4/syr/ar4_syr_spm.pdf
Originally posted by COKKENBALLS


Besides, it is all theory at this point.

So, we should throw out the theory of relativity, the atomic theory, and the quantum theory because they are theories???

A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

All of these theories are well documented and proved beyond reasonable doubt. Yet scientists continue to tinker with the component hypotheses of each theory in an attempt to make them more elegant and concise, or to make them more all-encompa**ing. Theories can be tweaked, but they are seldom, if ever, entirely replaced.
http://www.wilstar.com/theories.htm
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Posts: -998930 		Post Options Post Options   Quote COKKENBALLS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2009 at 11:10am
Originally posted by HanFei

Originally posted by COKKENBALLS

Originally posted by HanFei

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change releases yearly peer reviewed reports from scientists around the world.  This is neither political, bad science, nor pseudoscience.
http://www.ipcc.ch/
I hope these aren't the same scientists that came up with global cooling.
Page 4 in the the link below shows that while parts of the globe decreased in temperature  from 1970, overall surface temperatures have increased.
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/a**essment-report/ar4/syr/ar4_syr_spm.pdf
Originally posted by COKKENBALLS


Besides, it is all theory at this point.

So, we should throw out the theory of relativity, the atomic theory, and the quantum theory because they are theories???

A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

All of these theories are well documented and proved beyond reasonable doubt. Yet scientists continue to tinker with the component hypotheses of each theory in an attempt to make them more elegant and concise, or to make them more all-encompa**ing. Theories can be tweaked, but they are seldom, if ever, entirely replaced.
http://www.wilstar.com/theories.htm
I should have been less cynical and more descript in my posts. How long have the atomic theory, theory of relativity and quantum theory been around? Have they gone in the complete opposite direction in less than 15 years? In 1975, we were being threatened by global cooling. By 1990, we were beginning to see global warming wheels starting to turn. In the early 80's, aerosol cans were going to spell the end because of an "unrepairable" hole in the ozone layer. Today, that too has been debunked.
I guess what I am saying is that it is hard to give credit to a theory that changes every so often. I won't argue that the earth is warming ever so slightly. Us puny humans are rather full of ourselves to believe that we had anything to do with it.
Hasn't the earth emerged from 7 previous ice ages? How many Republicans, Escalades and aerosol cans around for those?
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Han may be a nuclear engineering student, but when it come to Finance I think i can bring a little something more to the table.

I Have a BS in Economics and Political Science from the University of Wisconsin
I've worked in the financial services industry for over 10 years.
During that time I've been an Equity Research Analyst for one the worlds largest money management firms in the country, Strong Capital which was bought a few years ago by Wells Fargo. At its peak we managed $40 billion in a**ets.

I currently work for a smaller organization in the same capacity. we manage a $1billion mutual fund and a smaller Hedge Fund. Our mutual fund is one of the most successful in terms of performance relative to the market in he country. (you can look up our ticker FMIOX)

I am a Chartered Financial Analyst or CFA. Getting this designation requires pa**ing Three levels of rigorous testing over a minimum of three years. The tests are administered once a year and rival if not surpa** the BAR exam.

A DEEP UNDERSTANDING OF FINANCE, THE FINANCIAL MARKETS, MICRO AND MACRO ECONOMINCS is imperative in my role. I conduct research all day on individual companies as well as pore over economic data and news using qualitative and quantitative tools.

I am NOT a financial planner but an ANALYST, our firms clients are very large institutions. In turn, we are clients of some of the largest and most influential investment banks in the country. Although we do our own research we have access to the research of all the Investment banks we do business with.

Those are my credentials


Here Goes:

The Fed is NOT a private bank, however, it is not a branch of the US government. It is a hybrid institution. The MEMBERS of the Federal reserve SYSTEM are in fact Private Banks, this does not however, make the Fed a private entity. The Chairman of the Federal Reserve is appointed by the president, but he is not a member of the president's cabinet or part of his administration. 

The term 'Independence' refers to how much autonomy the Fed has in terms of setting monetary policy.
an Independent Fed means that monetray policy is set INDEPENDENT of political forces so that monetray policy is not set by pandering politicians.

Central Bank INDEPENDENCE is measured across a spectrum.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE FED (the term used for the central bank of the United States) is relatively independent when measured against other countries central banks. On the other end of the spectrum is Venezuela, for example. Hugo Chavez appoints a central banker who obeys Chaves' whims. That is central bank with no independence.

The EUCB (the European Union Central Bank) is actually considered more Independent that then the FED, but not by  a whole lot. This stems from history. The EUCB was modeled after the German Central BANK (the BUNDES BANK) before the unification of European currencies. The German Central bank was considered THE WORLDS MOST INDEPENDENT BANK. this again stems from history.

Many historians attribute the rise of Hitler to the economic turmoil during the Weimar Republic. The turmoil was first instigated  by the harsh war reparations imposed by the Allies after WWI, but made Much much worse by the actions of the Weimar Republic.

 To pay their debts, the government Printed Money ... the central bank was not an independent entity and did what the elected officials of the Republic wished, which is Print money, which made their currency worthless. 

The inflation that created was crippling the economy, actually made it chaotic, which in turn gave the Nazis the opening they needed to gain power. The rate of inflation at one point in 1923 hit 3.25 X 10^6 % per MONTH!!!

Thats a doubling of prices every two days!

Studies after study has demonstrated that the more independent a nations central bank is, the less inflation exists in the economy. The inflation rate in the United States at its peak recently was never over 5%, mainly driven by oil and other commodities, but in Venezuela inflation peaked at a whopping 36%!
Even in the global downturn Venezuela is still experiencing ma**ive hyper inflation.

We are in a global economy, Central Banks communicate and coordinate policy (at least the Independent ones in the major developed economies the so called G7) Coordinating policy among independent central banks that are not subject to elected bodies is what gives rise to, in my opinion, the ABSURD conspiracy theories. Yes these central bankers wield a lot of power. Yes they are Relatively independent bodies.
Yes, they coordinate Policy. Is this a Conspiracy? absolutely NOT.

The alternative is much much worse.
Fluffy out.
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Posts: 798 		Post Options Post Options   Quote HanFei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2009 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Fluffy Fluffington


We are in a global economy, Central Banks communicate and coordinate policy (at least the Independent ones in the major developed economies the so called G7) Coordinating policy among independent central banks that are not subject to elected bodies is what gives rise to, in my opinion, the ABSURD conspiracy theories. Yes these central bankers wield a lot of power. Yes they are Relatively independent bodies.
Yes, they coordinate Policy. Is this a Conspiracy? absolutely NOT.

Well said, great read.
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To all above, please read the Federal Reserve Act in it's entirety. This has nothing to do with consipracy theories. If you guys want a more thorough explanation, let me know and I'll send you the description of the Fed. For the record, the Fed is the largest creditor of the US Government. Futhermore, the each branch of the Fed is a registered C-Corp (state of Delaware), with issued shared held by publicly traded business entities. Lastly, the Fed issues dividends. Therefore, the Fed can't be a not-for-profit entity, since it possesses earnings and profits.

 
The Fed is not organized within the Executive, Legislative or Judicial branches of our government.

Who pays the Fed’s bills and determines its budget? Not any part of our government. The Fed gets its funding from its own specially privileged operations. The Fed Board determines Fed budgets.

Who monitors and oversees Fed activities? Again the Fed itself. While some important elements of proper auditing have taken place, there has not yet been a comprehensive independent audit, by the Government Accountability Office as proposed to Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, calling for greater monetary transparency.

Federal Reserve Employees are not part of the US Civil Service System and are not covered by government employees’ health insurance or pension programs. Who does the hiring and firing? Except for the highly publicized Chairman and 7 member Washington Board, this is in private, unelected hands.

 
Hope that gives you a little start into the research.

 

 
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Posts: 2065 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fluffy Fluffington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2009 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by Pinnacle

To all above, please read the Federal Reserve Act in it's entirety. This has nothing to do with consipracy theories. If you guys want a more thorough explanation, let me know and I'll send you the description of the Fed. For the record, the Fed is the largest creditor of the US Government. Futhermore, the each branch of the Fed is a registered C-Corp (state of Delaware), with issued shared held by publicly traded business entities. Lastly, the Fed issues dividends. Therefore, the Fed can't be a not-for-profit entity, since it possesses earnings and profits.

 
The Fed is not organized within the Executive, Legislative or Judicial branches of our government.

Who pays the Fed’s bills and determines its budget? Not any part of our government. The Fed gets its funding from its own specially privileged operations. The Fed Board determines Fed budgets.

Who monitors and oversees Fed activities? Again the Fed itself. While some important elements of proper auditing have taken place, there has not yet been a comprehensive independent audit, by the Government Accountability Office as proposed to Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, calling for greater monetary transparency.

Federal Reserve Employees are not part of the US Civil Service System and are not covered by government employees’ health insurance or pension programs. Who does the hiring and firing? Except for the highly publicized Chairman and 7 member Washington Board, this is in private, unelected hands.

 
Hope that gives you a little start into the research.

 

 


None of what you said is untrue, that is why I called it a HYBRID body.
Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac both are private bodies but also quasi government organizations. In the case of Fannie and Freddy they lean more toward the private end of the spectrum, but HYBRIDS NONTHELESS.

All of the things you cited above are part and parcel what make the fed independent.
As I said the greater the independence of the FED, or any central bank in ANY NATION, for that matter, the less the likelihood that political considerations mangle incredibly important Monetary policy and therefore the less likely we have crippling inflation.

The feds independence, or the lack of oversight as you call it, troubles many. It was the centerpiece of the Thesis in an amazing book published a decade ago called the "Secrets of the Temple".

Pinn would you rather have Monetary Policy, the supply of Money, in the hands of Politicians, the likes of say Pelosi, Barney Frank!!!

God no!
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Posts: 244 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ournemesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2009 at 8:26pm
Interesting forum topic sickboogiemurder , and great post replies everyone . I truly enjoyed it
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Posts: 2510 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pinnacle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2009 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Fluffy Fluffington

Originally posted by Pinnacle

To all above, please read the Federal Reserve Act in it's entirety. This has nothing to do with consipracy theories. If you guys want a more thorough explanation, let me know and I'll send you the description of the Fed. For the record, the Fed is the largest creditor of the US Government. Futhermore, the each branch of the Fed is a registered C-Corp (state of Delaware), with issued shared held by publicly traded business entities. Lastly, the Fed issues dividends. Therefore, the Fed can't be a not-for-profit entity, since it possesses earnings and profits.

 
The Fed is not organized within the Executive, Legislative or Judicial branches of our government.

Who pays the Fed’s bills and determines its budget? Not any part of our government. The Fed gets its funding from its own specially privileged operations. The Fed Board determines Fed budgets.

Who monitors and oversees Fed activities? Again the Fed itself. While some important elements of proper auditing have taken place, there has not yet been a comprehensive independent audit, by the Government Accountability Office as proposed to Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, calling for greater monetary transparency.

Federal Reserve Employees are not part of the US Civil Service System and are not covered by government employees’ health insurance or pension programs. Who does the hiring and firing? Except for the highly publicized Chairman and 7 member Washington Board, this is in private, unelected hands.

 
Hope that gives you a little start into the research.

 

 


None of what you said is untrue, that is why I called it a HYBRID body.
Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac both are private bodies but also quasi government organizations. In the case of Fannie and Freddy they lean more toward the private end of the spectrum, but HYBRIDS NONTHELESS.

All of the things you cited above are part and parcel what make the fed independent.
As I said the greater the independence of the FED, or any central bank in ANY NATION, for that matter, the less the likelihood that political considerations mangle incredibly important Monetary policy and therefore the less likely we have crippling inflation.

The feds independence, or the lack of oversight as you call it, troubles many. It was the centerpiece of the Thesis in an amazing book published a decade ago called the "Secrets of the Temple".

Pinn would you rather have Monetary Policy, the supply of Money, in the hands of Politicians, the likes of say Pelosi, Barney Frank!!!

God no!


 

LMAO! Could you imagine what would happen if Congress, especially Pelosi, ran the Fed? We'd be a 3rd World country. Good points Fluffy. Let's have a chat sometime about finance. That's my cup of tea also. It'd be interesting to have some PSN chats about something other than UT3.

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