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Post Options Post Options   Quote SIZZLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: SCIENCE
    Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 6:43pm
If the big bang theory is correct and there was an explosion and everything is expanding? then the results of that explosion are still happening! that means that the end result of that explosion is still up in the air so to speak!

and if the explosion and results of that explosion are acually creating time?

then anywhere outside of the results of that explosion. time might not even exist?

and if you look towards the the explosion, and the further you look the further your seeing back in time is the case? then if we look in the opposite direction doesn't the same princibles have to apply in reverse? the farther you look in the opposite direction of the explosion is the further you'd see into the future? which would mean were not in the present but in the past!

unless there was nothing when we look in the opposite direction of the explosion. only then would we be in the present.

not a theory xD just a thought





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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 9:00pm
i may hv read this wrong, i think i read it a lil fast so ill come back later and read it, but i think ur logic is wrong....if u look at the stuff farthest away, the stuff that has expanded longer, ud be looking into the pst because the light from those distant stars has taken so long to reach u....when u look up at the night sky, u arent seeing those stars as they currently exist, the light from those stars have been traveling for many thousand or millions of years before reaching are eyes, so you are seeing them as they were those many millenia ago when that light started towards us.....basically everywhere we look into space, we are looking into the past.

time is all relative tho, it passes differntly for everything in the universe...a lifetime for us is but a second for the universe, whereas a day for us is a lifetime for other organisms. we live in our present as we percieve it.....reality is our perception of our surroundings, time included, so what u percieve as the present is and is not quite true...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 9:03pm
consider everything u see, no matter how close u are to it u are merely seeing the light reflected off that object and with that in mind, u are not truly seeing what u are observing as it exists at that very moment, u are percieving it a fraction of a second after that moment (the time the light takes to reflect off the object and be percieved by u, including the fraction of a second ur brain takes to process the information from ur eyes and send an image back)

btw....nice radioactive sybol on the topic syz :D hehehe
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aquaknot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 9:22pm
You better ask Hanfei that stuff.  He's the resident genius.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by Aquaknot

You better ask Hanfei that stuff.  He's the resident genius.


Agreed
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TuNA FISh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

If the big bang theory is correct and there was an explosion and everything is expanding? then the results of that explosion are still happening! that means that the end result of that explosion is still up in the air so to speak!

and if the explosion and results of that explosion are acually creating time?

then anywhere outside of the results of that explosion. time might not even exist?

and if you look towards the the explosion, and the further you look the further your seeing back in time is the case? then if we look in the opposite direction doesn't the same princibles have to apply in reverse? the farther you look in the opposite direction of the explosion is the further you'd see into the future? which would mean were not in the present but in the past!

unless there was nothing when we look in the opposite direction of the explosion. only then would we be in the present.

not a theory xD just a thought






there are 3 types of universes btw.. a closed universe, an open universe, and a flat universe (which is what we exist in).
if there is too much gravity than you have a closed universe.. if there is too much dark energy than you have an open universe.. if it evens out then you have a flat universe.
i know it's random, i just wanted you to know
in a flat universe it keeps expanding and eventually it will slow down but never stop
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 11:09pm
tuna that topic is still quite hotly debated amongst the scientific community, all they r certain of right now is that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate...speeding up

however while that leads to the conclusion that the universe will continue to expand until everything just drifts apart into cold nothingness (the "Big Rip" theory as i understand it is called) many others accept the possibility that the universe's expansion will slow, stop and then reverse....collapsing back in on itself (the "Big Crunch" theory i believe this one is called)

going off on to a side note, there are some who believe that our universe's origins, the origin of the Big Bang, was the result of another "universe" or possibly even another dimension collapsing in on itself in a "Big Crunch" following a cycle of one universe dies another takes its place....again that's all just hyppothetcials and nothing will substantial evidence just some food for thought, but i know most peoples minds will wonder to the question (contd)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 11:13pm
"if thats the case, where did the first universe begin?" and i wont event pretend that i know the answer to one of man's most existential questions. thats like asking "where did god come from?"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SIZZLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 2:26am
how could we be looking back in time no matter what direction we look? are we surrounded by the past?
if there was a big bang at one single point? it would send matter in all directions, but if were in a set location? then what you said should be impossible! unless the explosion was from all around us and inward and not outward?

also to assume that the big bang and everything created by the big bang is the only thing in existance without any kind of proof? would be pretty ignorant imo!

they claim dark energy makes up 2/3 of everything in existence? yet dark energy is a new find and nothing is known about it yet. theyre comparing it to a skeletol structure. kind of strange that it was randomly discovered at this time?

anyone see the Morgan Freeman episode on black holes? Hawkins radiation seems to have been disproven? if you believe that crack pot theory on holigrams explaining black holes? lol made by that ex plumber. Morgan Freeman is perfect for those programs though. he has the perfect voice and personality for it.

science is interesting but some scientists are to desperate to make a name for themselves lol



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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 2:46am
Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

how could we be looking back in time no matter what direction we look? are we surrounded by the past? if there was a big bang at one single point? it would send matter in all directions, but if were in a set location? then what you said should be impossible!

nah man ur missn wat im saying, what u are OBSERVING in the night sky is light that has eminated from stars millions if not billions of years ago, light has a speed limit, it does not reach our eyes the moment it is emitted. for example, light from the sun takes about 8 minutes to reach our eyes (i believe its 8) so if u were to look at the sun, u would actually be observing the sun as it existed 8 minutes ago....so if the sun dies tomorrow at 12PM tomorrow, u would have 8 minutes of light and would not be plunged into darkness until around 12:08PM

However, if u were to physically tavel closer to the sun or any "body" that exists in the universe (yes even a person) the closer u are to that body, the closer u would be....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 3:14am
to observing that object at it exsists in the present. But u will never truly see an object in real-time since as i said, no matter how close u are to an object light will always take time to reflect off the object u are observing back into ur eye, and then ur brain must process the info into an image (this process takes about 1/10 of a second from the time light hits ur eye). in essence u are correct by saying the past is all around us, because u can only get within fractions of a second to observing an object or person in real-time.

this brings up another intresting part of science, this in the realms of the human brain....
our brains and eyes have developed the ability to "see" into the future to compensate for this "lag" that iv decribed. now when i say we can "see" into the future its more of a "guesstimation" of what will happen. our eyes predict what will happen far enough into the future (just fractions of a second) to keep us "percieving" the present time, but those predictions can be wrong
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 3:29am
....from time to time, one example is optical illusions which occur when our brains attempt to perceive the future, and those perceptions don't match reality. (sry ps3 has a character limit in messages)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 3:39am
Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

also to assume that the big bang and everything created by the big bang is the only thing in existance without any kind of proof? would be pretty ignorant imo!


syzygy thats like saying that believing that God and everything created by God are the only things in existance without any kind of proof, is ignorance. now having said that, i kind of agree with u, after all u cant get something from nothing so what caused the big bang...or where did God come from, who created the creator?
ur asking questions that no one knows the answer to, the beginning of everything, not an easy one to solve.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SIZZLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 4:25am
yea i already know of everything your speaking of. thats all covered in the Morgan Freeman programs. i believe the one on time travel covers most if not all of your points? but since there's still so many things unknown i like to add some thought to what they believe to be the case. or else it would just be a matter of rembering what they tell you.

so i already get how it takes time for light to reach you so the farther you are away from what your viewing the more time it takes for the image to reach you. so your seeing the image as it existed prior.

which also means if something is extremly far away it may not even exist by the time we get the image! which also means we can't view something it its current state.



    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SIZZLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 4:32am
Originally posted by TX2k7

Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

also to assume that the big bang and everything created by the big bang is the only thing in existance without any kind of proof? would be pretty ignorant imo!
syzygy thats like saying that believing that God and everything created by God are the only things in existance without any kind of proof, is ignorance. now having said that, i kind of agree with u, after all u cant get something from nothing so what caused the big bang...or where did God come from, who created the creator?ur asking questions that no one knows the answer to, the beginning of everything, not an easy one to solve.


no thats totally different! there has been plenty of proof of GOD! depending of course on what someone conciders proof?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 7:07am
no im pretty sure its not completely different, u made a statement about some peoples belief in (what they see as) the creating force of the universe, the creating force of the universe in ur case would be God, and so as i said im pretty sure its not different.

again ur going back to the moment of creation, not even religion begins to touch upon this question, after all God had to come from somewhere, and if there was somewhere it came frome, chances are things existed before God and that would mean that God didnt create everything.....the big bang had to come from somewhere right? something had to be there for it to explode and that would mean that something existed before the big bang meaning not everything was created by it, is it ignorance tho? idk, i mean theres only so far back, only so close to the moment of creation that we can come, even religion has its limits on that timeline.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aquaknot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 7:38am

I'm not going to take sides on this, but I will add that "proof" in science is actually called "proofs".  Proofs are empirical data.  Empirical data is that data that cannot be disputed because it is proven fact.  When a "Theory" is presented, it is because all signs and related "proofs" point toward the theory being correct, but the theory has yet to be proven with empirical data.

The Bible doesn't exist to teach about science and nature.  It exists to teach about God and Human Nature.  I've read it cover to cover many times. Never learned a bit of science while reading it.

Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God.  Neither can believers "prove" the existence of God, nor can Atheists disprove the existence of God.

Believers (no matter the religion) rely on "faith".  What's that?  One man put it this way; "Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen".  Kinda deep, but it's like hoping for an afternoon breeze and one suddenly shows up.  You obviously can't see the breeze, but you can see the effects of it.  You hoped for it, it arrived and you saw the evidence of it.  Many believers attribute everything they can't explain to their faith and actions by God or Satan.

Some of the extreme examples include the burning of witches by "believers" because the evidence of something they couldn't see was killing people.  Turned out it was a cholera epidemic but they had no skill in identifying disease.  So naturally there was some unknown negative force at work.

I suppose 1,000 years from now people will look back on the 21st century and think we were a bunch of retards. I'm beginning to think that already.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 8:23am
Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

so i already get how it takes time for light to reach you so the farther you are away from what your viewing the more time it takes for the image to reach you. so your seeing the image as it existed prior. which also means if something is extremly far away it may not even exist by the time we get the image! which also means we can't view something it its current state.      
exactly and our eyes & brain compensate for this "Lag" by assuming our future, so that it seems we are in real time and so that simple actions like catching a ball dont get f***ed up.... trouble is when u assume, theres always room for error, hence the existence of optical illusions as i said earlier. sometimes we perceive our future incorrectly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote -DaGoN- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 5:10pm

The present is relative.

And TX is right, to even begin to wonder about the question "Who created our creator (big bang, god,..) ?" or "How can something come out of nothing ?" is useless, since it's beyond our comprehension. Just like the thought "There used to be no time." We cannot even begin to imagine something like that, it's impossible.
 
@Aqua "nor can Atheists disprove the existence of God."
Of course not, how can someone prove a negative ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aquaknot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 7:56pm
It's certainly not "proving a negative".  It's having no proof in either direction on the matter.  That was the point of my post.

I suspect you meant "proving non-existence".  That would be impossible.  With no measurable evidence, no conclusion can be made.  Therefore, no proof.

Five hundred years ago the earth was flat and the sun revolved around it daily.  Suggesting otherwise could get you killed.  Today, suggesting that certain beliefs are foolish or threatening to burn a bound collection of paper and ink can get you killed.  We've come a long way.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SP61gTSupra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by Aquaknot

Five hundred years ago the earth was flat and the sun revolved around it daily.  Suggesting otherwise could get you killed.  Today, suggesting that certain beliefs are foolish or threatening to burn a bound collection of paper and ink can get you killed.  We've come a long way.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SIZZLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 9:46pm
common since tells me that saying “something created from nothing” when there's so much still unknown makes no since at all!

telescopes can only be aim'd in 1 direction at a time! and there is so much out there. and whats beyond what can be seen with telescopes? and if 1 big bang occured then other big bangs could of occured elsewhere! assumption is truly the mother of all fk ups! and ASSUMPTION is also the #1 true faith of the IGNORANT!

ignorant people are always true believers in ASSUMPTION!

theory is accually assumption! lol
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 6:27am
syz i think u misunderstood the point of my statement about "u cant get something from nothing" so ill put it like this then, if god created everything in existence, where then did god come from? because if god created everything in existence, then that would suggest it came from nothing (since nothing existed before god).

syz iv already stated tho that some people have supposed that other big bangs have occured, not necessarily in this universe or this dimension.

syz man, assumptions are made in every facet of life, its all over religion too...example: its an assumption to say that theres only one god. there could very well be multiple gods, the fact that uv had experiences with only one doesnt necessarily mean that there arent others, and without any solid proof its just an assumption to state it as fact when its just a personal belief.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SP61gTSupra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 7:23am
Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

common since tells me that saying “something created from nothing” when there's so much still unknown makes no since at all!

telescopes can only be aim'd in 1 direction at a time! and there is so much out there. and whats beyond what can be seen with telescopes? and if 1 big bang occured then other big bangs could of occured elsewhere! assumption is truly the mother of all fk ups! and ASSUMPTION is also the #1 true faith of the IGNORANT!

ignorant people are always true believers in ASSUMPTION!

theory is accually assumption! lol
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Post Options Post Options   Quote F.u.k-shaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 8:52am
My taught was that a Galaxy is imploding-expanding...
It means that the inner planets/suns are impoding while the outer ones are expanding... It means one galaxy produce new stars all the time!
The gravity of one object also "bend" time while the Magnetic ones bend gravity.
I understand what i wrote but dont understand it!
About science: The Dogon tribe new star pattern long before we had binoculars, funny thing is that one cannot see some of the stars with the naked eye! So what science did they have?
 
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