SCIENCE

Originally posted by HanFei Tiawian's health care system is at 9% of GDP and covers everyone, while the US is at 16% and does not. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89651916 There was a really cool TED talk about consciousness and the connectome today. http://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_seung.html

yea but try'n to say that republicans are against healthcare reform is false. i'll check out the second one 4 sure.

Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc Originally posted by HanFei Tiawian's health care system is at 9% of GDP and covers everyone, while the US is at 16% and does not. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89651916 There was a really cool TED talk about consciousness and the connectome today. http://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_seung.html yea but try'n to say that republicans are against healthcare reform is false. i'll check out the second one 4 sure.

Nice Pinakul.

Originally posted by Pinnacle Fundamental rights include only the following:   Right to equal protection under the law Right to Freedom of Thought Right to Free Speech and Press Right to Freedom of Association Right to Freedom of Movement Right to Marry Right to Privacy Right to Procreate Right to Vote in General Elections Right to Direct your own Child's Upbringing Right to Property Right to Bear Arms Right to Contract   Please tell me how insurance fits on this list. Our Constitution, Bill of Rights and all other laws are based on these fundamental right. Under this law, it is not even a "Right" to own insurance. It's mandatory to own insurance. That is fundamentally against our [constitution] and I expect the Supreme Court is going to declare this law [unconstitutional] on that ground alone. Also, this is the first time in America that the Federal Government is forcing someone to purchase a consumer product. Most have compared it to car insurance, which is also [mandatory] if you drive, however, under car insurance, you have a choice not to drive, thus it not being an entitlement or a forced consumer purchase. We don't have the choice to not live (since that is also illegal). [Therefore,] health insurance is a mandate to purchase a [consumer] product, not a right or [entitlement.]

While drinking water is not in that list, we agree it is necessary for life. So too, will we all require medical care.

To clarify, I'm under the strong impression that HR 3590, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, does not mandate purchasing health insurance. Rather, "If you don’t get health insurance, you’ll have to pay a tax penalty. An insurance-less person would have to pay whichever is greater: $695 for each uninsured family member, up to a maximum of $2,085; or 2.5 percent of household income. There are exceptions. Certain people with religious objections would not have to get health insurance. Nor would American Indians, illegal immigrants, or people in prison." - via csmonitor


Since the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986 requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency treatment (regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay) AND 55% of emergency care goes uncompensated, those who have insurance and/or pay their hospital bills are indirectly financing treatment of uncompensated emergency care. The degree to which this happens in the "pre-health insurance reform" system to be in conflict with the meritocratic paragraph at the end of the above quote.

I believe greater contribution, via HR 3590, to a system we will all use and restrictions on select cost-reducing practices the market created (like the ones below) create a more just health care system.
- lifetime and annual limits
- ending rescissions - dropping coverage of the sick
- not covering those with preexisting conditions

Sources:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0319/Health-care-reform-bill-101-Who-must-buy-insurance
http://www.acep.org/patients.aspx?id=25932
http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/healthcare-overview#healthcare-menu
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/22/health-reform-bill-summary_n_508315.html#s75159

Originally posted by -DaGoN- What's it with you and your socks ?? It's a bit scary. :'D ;)

Originally posted by HanFei Originally posted by Pinnacle Fundamental rights include only the following:   Right to equal protection under the law Right to Freedom of Thought Right to Free Speech and Press Right to Freedom of Association Right to Freedom of Movement Right to Marry Right to Privacy Right to Procreate Right to Vote in General Elections Right to Direct your own Child's Upbringing Right to Property Right to Bear Arms Right to Contract   Please tell me how insurance fits on this list. Our Constitution, Bill of Rights and all other laws are based on these fundamental right. Under this law, it is not even a "Right" to own insurance. It's mandatory to own insurance. That is fundamentally against our [constitution] and I expect the Supreme Court is going to declare this law [unconstitutional] on that ground alone. Also, this is the first time in America that the Federal Government is forcing someone to purchase a consumer product. Most have compared it to car insurance, which is also [mandatory] if you drive, however, under car insurance, you have a choice not to drive, thus it not being an entitlement or a forced consumer purchase. We don't have the choice to not live (since that is also illegal). [Therefore,] health insurance is a mandate to purchase a [consumer] product, not a right or [entitlement.] While drinking water is not in that list, we agree it is necessary for life. So too, will we all require medical care. To clarify, I'm under the strong impression that HR 3590, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, does not mandate purchasing health insurance. Rather, "If you don’t get health insurance, you’ll have to pay a tax penalty. An insurance-less person would have to pay whichever is greater: $695 for each uninsured family member, up to a maximum of $2,085; or 2.5 percent of household income. There are exceptions. Certain people with religious objections would not have to get health insurance. Nor would American Indians, illegal immigrants, or people in prison." - via csmonitor Since the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986 requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency treatment (regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay) AND 55% of emergency care goes uncompensated, those who have insurance and/or pay their hospital bills are indirectly financing treatment of uncompensated emergency care. The degree to which this happens in the "pre-health insurance reform" system to be in conflict with the meritocratic paragraph at the end of the above quote. I believe greater contribution, via HR 3590, to a system we will all use and restrictions on select cost-reducing practices the market created (like the ones below) create a more just health care system. - lifetime and annual limits - ending rescissions - dropping coverage of the sick - not covering those with preexisting conditions Sources: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0319/Health-care-reform-bill-101-Who-must-buy-insurance http://www.acep.org/patients.aspx?id=25932 http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/healthcare-overview#healthcare-menu http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/22/health-reform-bill-summary_n_508315.html#s75159

Originally posted by JPINATOR so the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer?

this is a bit off topic.

Originally posted by JPINATOR edit-delete, I'm not getting into this

Very cool graphic, I'm going to have to display it on the projector tomorrow and take a look at the whole picture.

Originally posted by HanFei Below, is a cool, albeit too large infographic. http://photos.webridestv.com/datastore/images/user/db191f25c36fd2dee1b6555a6e91cfe0/Death_and_Taxes_USA_Federal_Budget_64262_20080424.jpg

whats your point Han Fei? if its Bush/Cheaney spending and increasing the debt? were in agreement there. BUT John Mcain tried to stop the housing and banking crises that led to the stimulious package! and Bush warned about it but didn't stop it. corrupt democrats like Chris Dddd and Barney Frank were acually a part of it though.

Obama has already spent more then anyone else, and he wants to spend a whole lot more!

Originally posted by HanFei Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc Originally posted by HanFei Below, is a cool, albeit too large infographic. http://photos.webridestv.com/datastore/images/user/db191f25c36fd2dee1b6555a6e91cfe0/Death_and_Taxes_USA_Federal_Budget_64262_20080424.jpg whats your point Han Fei? if its Bush/Cheaney spending and increasing the debt? were in agreement there. BUT John Mcain tried to stop the housing and banking crises that led to the stimulious package! and Bush warned about it but didn't stop it. corrupt democrats like Chris Dddd and Barney Frank were acually a part of it though. Obama has already spent more then anyone else, and he wants to spend a whole lot more! No direction, just wanted to add data to the discussion. Our senators and representatives create the budget, The president just signs it. Once we realized the Subprime housing lending and massive CDOs were going on, there is little to be done, since sooooo many loans had already been made.

neither point is correct. the president works with his party leaders and advisers and decides on his annual budget. he then submits it to congress.

Mcain was on to the developing crises long before it acually became a crises! he argued in the senate that something has to be done, but Barney Frank argued that Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were fine. i seen the senate tape.

Barney Frank was litteraly sleeping with a guy who worked at Fannie Mai, Chris Dodd was chairman of the banking commitee. They both recieved a lot of campaign money from both company's. Biggest scam in history and no one got in trouble?

When those two are out of the senate i bet they get some very high paying jobs lol