Science v Religion

Originally posted by Phenethylamine When you die it's the same as before you were born    :3

Hey Penguin, why aren't you

Originally posted by QwEsT willing to listen to the truth

? :O

Dro there is talk of a large comet next month.... ive heard that a Rusian scientist posted on NASA's site that it will real close 0.7, and then NASA instantly shut down the chat because they were saying 3.8

I also heard there's a NASA site you can go to and you can see where their tracking it, but i havn't cheched it out.   

^ LoL that was just an idea of some1 getting distracted. O_o

Originally posted by Pinnacle Originally posted by ax412 then somebody is gonna say well how do you know the apostles wrote the Gospels. like qwest said it will never end if we try to debate it. one of us just has to die eventually and bring a cell phone   Very true. I wouldn't call it debating, but rather enlightenment. There are a lot of people in this world that are Christian, but do not know or understand the origins and history of Christianity. It is very complex to digest. Furhtermore, there are many working peices. Doesn't make it wrong. However, most people that speak against Christianity are looking for something simple. Christianity is anything but simple. However, it Christianity's complexity that makes it a powerful religion.   The issues are that there are dozens of authors to the Bible. Therefore, there are multiple acounts of what actually occurred. Also, the Church of England screwed things up when the royalty thought they were decendants of Jesus and thus they can come up with their own interpretation of the Bible (i.e. King James Bible). Furthermore, the Counsil of Trent, in 1546, canonized the current version of the Catholic Bible. A lot was added to the Bible at this time. Of course, this is an oversimplification to the reason why Christianity is heavily debated, but these type of actions have added to the debate. <FONT size=+0>

At least, they allow women and gays to be priests....

Jaysus Christ, I read maybe the whole first page before I almost puked on my nice hardwood floors and had to stop. I must say you're all a bunch of f*ckin homos for trying to jerk each others viewpoints off. Flame on


A beautiful little message from SLAYER off the album "God Hates Us All":

2. Disciple

Drones since the dawn of time
Compelled to live your sheltered lives
Not once has anyone ever seen
Such a rise of pure hypocracy
I'll instigate I'll free your mind
I'll show you what I've known all this time

God Hates Us All, God Hates Us All
You know it's true God hates this place
You know it's true he hates this race

Homicide-Suicide
Hate heals, you should try it sometime
Strive for Peace with acts of war
The beauty of death we all adore
I have no faith distracting me
I know why your prayers will never be answered

God Hates Us All; God Hates Us All
He f***in' hates me

Pessimist, Terrorist targeting the next mark
Global chaos feeding on hysteria
Cut throat, slit your wrist, shoot you in the back fair game
Drug abuse, self abuse searching for the next high
Sounds a lot like hell is spreading all the time
I'm waiting for the day the whole world f***ing dies

I never said I wanted to be God's disciple
I'll never be the one to blindly follow

Man made virus infecting the world
Self-destruct human time bomb
What if there is no God would you think the f***in' same
Wasting your life in a leap of blind faith
Wake the f*** up can't ignore what I say
I got my own philosophy

I hate everyone equally
You can't tear that out of me
No segregation -separation
Just me in my world of enemies

I never said I wanted to be God's disciple
I'll never be the one to blindly follow
I'll never be the one to bear the cross-disciple

I reject this f***in' race
I despise this f***in' place

A lil vid to accompany the above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72srSaFskVU

And another:

4. New Faith

Holy man open up your eyes
To the ways of the world you've been so blind
As the walls of religion come crashing down
How's the ignorance taste the second time around

Tell me how it feels knowing chaos will never end
Tell me what it's like when the celebration begins

Welcome to the horror of the revelation
Tell me what you think of your savior now
I reject all the biblical views of the truth
Dismiss it as the folklore of the times
I won't be force fed prophecies
From a book of untruths for the weakest mind
Join the new faith for the celebration
Cult of new faith fuels the devastation

Holy man come and worship me
I am all that you ever wanted to be
I'm the life of indulgence you never knew
The epitome of evil shining through

Tell me how it feels knowing chaos will never end
Tell me what it's like when the celebration begins

Welcome to the horror of the revelation
Tell me what you think of your savior now
I reject all the biblical views of the truth
Dismiss it as the folklore of the times
I won't be force fed prophecies
From a book of untruths for the weakest mind
I keep the bible in a pool of blood  (this line is just wrong, lol)
So that none of its lies can affect me

This is new faith
A different way of life
Witness the shame
See for yourself the lies
I'll take the fight
Bring it every time, any time
Refuse to let them win
My heresy begins

Pray for life - wish for death
Pray for life - know in time you'll pray for death

Tear it away
It lives inside your mind
Silence the fear
That keeps you pure inside
Now you can see
Life's atrocities endlessly
Witness the miracle
Witness the miracle

Pray for life - wish for death
Pray for life - with every breath
You'll pray for death - you'll pray for death
Embrace new faith, embrace new faith
Yeah, new faith - yeah, new faith.

And another lil vid to accompany the above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biHKTSOgJbo

I'm going to hell for this. And you're all coming with me. Sorry to offend anyone but the mere sight of this thread after that 30 something page fiasco from earlier this year just irked me.

From Tom Araya's (vocalist) mouth:

well phant even the book of Revelations has had a story added to it that today, because most people will not discriminate between footnotes and actual text, is widely regarded as biblical fact for its mere inclusion in the book. Im speaking of the story of the Rapture., which was not authored nor concieved of by John of Patmos when he wrote the book of Revelations. In fact it was not even added into the Bible until the 1800's. up until that point, there had been no mass belief backed by the church that heaven is for the chosen few who believe only

Originally posted by TX2k7 well phant even the book of Revelations has had a story added to it that today, because most people will not discriminate between footnotes and actual text, is widely regarded as biblical fact for its mere inclusion in the book. Im speaking of the story of the Rapture., which was not authored nor concieved of by John of Patmos when he wrote the book of Revelations. In fact it was not even added into the Bible until the 1800's. up until that point, there had been no mass belief backed by the church that heaven is for the chosen few who believe only

you gotta give me a link.(in other words which part) I always find these things interesting lol
I due know Thessalonian talks about being caught up in the air with the Lord.

Originally posted by ax412 Originally posted by QwEsT Originally posted by Pinnacle Originally posted by QwEsT What's the point of arguing here, if they don't believe, & aren't willing to listen to the truth they're screwed when they die.I believe, in Jesus being the Son of God. Btw the gospels, Matthew Mark Luke & John, were written by ppl who lived while Jesus lived, & they also had a close relationship with him.   Qwesty, there is much debate regarding the canonical gospels. For instance, the gospel of John has been deeply debated. It's authoriship is still unknown. However, it's universally accepted that John the Apostle wasn't the author. That is why it is the most comprehensive gospel. It's been revised multiple times over the years. It takes from all of the gospels and ties the stories together. Without the Gospel of John, the 3 other gospels contradict each other to some degree.   Also, the original Bible on had 3 Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke). In the 2nd Century, the Book of John was added in an attempt to create "Gospel Harmony". That's when the discepancies started to emerge. It's the equivilent of you and I tring to tell the same story, but they sound different. The stories should be the same, yet perspective is different.     Most stories will be different, you gotta take into account where the person is looking, & location. One person might get distracted by a bug & miss something, or another, person might be blocking his view. Qwest has a point lowkey. Luke was written by Luke who wrote Acts. But Luke didn't walk with Jesus. He had to ask the other Apostles and base it on it was told to him. I personally believe John as written by John. The John Rylands Papyrus 52 kinda helps.It was  found A.D 135. And in order for John to have made its way to Egypt it would have to been copied and circulated elsewhere. And personally speaking as a student in a school of ministry If I could only live with 3 books of the Bible... It would be the Gospel Of John, Romans and Revelation. IMO The 3 most important books in the Bible. John is about who Jesus was./is Romans is about what Jesus did for the believer. Revelations is about what he will do.

Originally posted by Pinnacle Originally posted by ax412 Ay Pinn, in your opinion who wrote the Epistles 1 , 2 ,3 John?   Again, the Epistles are also a much discussed subject. The authorship of the Johannine works are still getting parsed, with some understanding and still a lot of undiscovered history.   As I understand it, they were written by John the Evangelist. Since the writtings are all different in writting style, however, there are schools of thought that suggest that the Gospel, 1-3 John, and Revelations were all authored separately. Some churches believe that John did not author any of the books. It doesn't change their importance though.   I wasn't trying to provide opinion in my previous posts. The Gospel of John is a tough one since there isn't clarity as to who "John" is that wrote the Gospel. The description of the author is "the disciple whom Jesus loved". In the 2nd Century it was widely believed that it was John the Apostle. Therefore, the Gospel was according to John. However, as I mentioned before, the Johannine works are still studied and discussed, without clear concensus. i.e., the Roman Catholic Church believes that the works were authored by one person, other churches believe that there were many authors.   If you want my opinion, the Gospel of John is the most complete Gospel. By this I mean, the most polished and spiritual.   And for the record, I spent a lot of time during my undergraduate years in university studying various religions. My family is Christian and fairly religious. Therefore, I have always taken to learning more about Christianity. I do not claim to know more that others. I just like the discussion. However, it's probably not best to have this discourse on these forums since most of these kids hate the idea of God or Jesus.

Same here, the Gospel of John is my most favorite book in the Bible.
1 John is a close 2nd, most of the verses that I love come from these two books.
And its also possible that it could be two authors.
Easy example there's Philip the Evangelist (the guy who baptized the ethiopian eunuch then there's Philip the Apostle)
And I agree it would a great discussion.

Originally posted by ax412 Originally posted by TuNA FISh Originally posted by ax412 Yeah but Jesus being the Son of God is a game changer. If Jesus is the Son of Go, Muhammad was deceived. If Jesus wasn't ... well Paul said it best, "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." jesus wasnt considered the son of god until like 300 years after his death. that's a game changer too. how do you know what jesus said? gospels were written decades after he died loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool you mean the council of something starting with a N? where they decided on the canon of scripture? where EVERYONE in attending attested to Jesus being the Son of God except for 1-2 people under the influence of Gnosticism?

Originally posted by SIZZLE Originally posted by TuNA FISh Originally posted by ax412 Originally posted by TuNA FISh Originally posted by ax412 Yeah but Jesus being the Son of God is a game changer. If Jesus is the Son of Go, Muhammad was deceived. If Jesus wasn't ... well Paul said it best, "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." jesus wasnt considered the son of god until like 300 years after his death. that's a game changer too. how do you know what jesus said? gospels were written decades after he died looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolyou mean the council of something starting with a N?where they decided on the canon of scripture?where EVERYONE in attending attested to Jesus being the Son of God except for 1-2 people under the influence of Gnosticism? i'm talking about the civil war in rome between the christians and the pagans that resulted in the emperor converting to christianity and forming a council to decide on the contents of the bible. jesus wasn't considered god in human form until that moment.  why cant we all agree that all religion has it's similarities and that whether someone is christian, Buddhist, or muslim doesn't matter as long as we keep the philosophy of peace and goodwill to others that our world will become a better place? then maybe we can truly help those in desperate need in places such as the congo, etc. seems like most people do good deeds only because they think it will better there chances in heaven which seems kind of selfish from an outside perspective. im in no way accusing everyone of this nor am i down playing religion as a whole but when you include a large percentage of the worlds population into various religions you have to wonder who all is sincere and who all is just following the leader.  i respect religion and i may have posted some rude comments in the past or said some rude statements in religious debates with friends but with age comes maturity (better perception) and i understand how sensitive this topic is and saying rude and negative things about christianity (or other religions, depending on location) is like talking bad about someones family because it's been apart of their lives for so long. i only wish that devout religious individuals should keep an open mind to science and try to include it in their OWN personal view on creation and life. whether you're inspired by your religion or life experience shouldn't matter in the long run because we all have one thing in common and that is consciousness and we shouldn't let that go to waste.   The bible has been tampered with practiclly from its beginning Tuna, but thats no reason to disregard the whole thing though. I let jews worry about the old testimate bexause it pertains to their religion. The new testimate is for Christianity. Believing that there's a GOD, and that GOD knows a lot more then I do makes me feel pleasantly humble. If thats crazy then I don't ever want to be sane.

I acually agree with you about not taking every word in the bible literaly. Some people believe that every word in it is the word of GOD, but i don't.

I've also watch into the worm hole and it was very interesting. Morgan Freeman is the best.