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Another shooting..

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Phenethylamine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phenethylamine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another shooting..
    Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by TX2k7

Originally posted by BAIN

Originally posted by drdeath2point0

Wow guns aren't the problem. All of these shootings didn't occur until "they" took GOD out of your school systems. I used to pray every mornin in school until the 5th grade then someone decided it hurt someone else's feelings. Prayer does work.. End of discussion
I agree. Even a non believer like myself can see that religion serves a purpose in society. It helps maintain a level of self control.
same level of self control can be instilled by good parenting - which is lacking these days
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Deadaim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 5:50pm
You won't ever hear of a genocide in america like what happened in Germany. Because we are armed and can defend ourselves. Some of you teenie bopper sheep need to shut the f*** up. You might be fine with having your protection guaranteed by your govt.. most sane ppl rely on themselves tho
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phenethylamine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 6:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Deadaim

You won't ever hear of a genocide in america like what happened in Germany. Because we are armed and can defend ourselves. Some of you teenie bopper sheep need to shut the f*** up. You might be fine with having your protection guaranteed by your govt.. most sane ppl rely on themselves tho

90% of the Native American population wiped out, millions of lives well into the 1800's & early 1900's
hundreds of regularly occurring lynchings even into the 1960's
illegal imprisonment of Japanese-American citizens in concentration camps during WW2
illegal detainment of people at Guantanamo subjected to unfathomable tortures when out of 779 people, only 3 have ever been convicted of an offense.

just to name a few
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Deadaim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 7:29am
Originally posted by TX2k7


Originally posted by Deadaim

You won't ever hear of a genocide in america like what happened in Germany. Because we are armed and can defend ourselves. Some of you teenie bopper sheep need to shut the f*** up. You might be fine with having your protection guaranteed by your govt.. most sane ppl rely on themselves tho


90% of the Native American population wiped out, millions of lives well into the 1800's & early 1900's
hundreds of regularly occurring lynchings even into the 1960's
illegal imprisonment of Japanese-American citizens in concentration camps during WW2
illegal detainment of people at Guantanamo subjected to unfathomable tortures when out of 779 people, only 3 have ever been convicted of an offense.

just to name a few
uh nice try but its half baked f***ing responses like this that prove how little of an arguement you have.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Deadaim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 8:13am
I love liberals and there straw man arguments.. really do you not have a single ounce of care about not being fake?

the topic is american citizens gun control.. something many Americans don't want imposed on them.. and one of those big reasons is so they can't be mercilessly slaughtered and rounded up by the government... and you bring up the native Americans? One could say that is what the US govt did to them... I would agree and I would point out that most of the WARS happened in the 1600's before we even had a 2nd amendment..

Then you bring up Guantanamo.. which isn't even in the country.. please tell me how that is caused my Americans being allowed to own guns? It has nothing at all to do with it.. and it isn't a genocide, If anything its a crime of war.

And furthermore you bring up the Japaneese Americans (roughly 60% of them were American citizens) that were rounded up in this country (oh and canada, a country with stricter gun laws) during war and put into internment camps.. this once again wasn't a genocide (especially considering that none of them were put to death, tho 10-20k died due to natural causes).. but it was not very well thought out reaction by our govt to an act of war by the japaneese.

I really shouldn't of had to even respond to these far fetched examples of yours.. 

the next two portions of this post aren't mine.. but I think it explains gun control laws and my point pretty well:

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. 
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated 
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million. 
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. 
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. 
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late! 
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. 
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED! 
If you value your freedom, please spread this antigun-control message to all of your friends. 
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE. 
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!! 
IT'S A NO BRAINER!
DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET. 
Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

this isn't mine either, this shows how armed citizens can stop crimes that police simply wouldn't of been able to stop in time.:

 A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.
• A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.
• A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.
• A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.
• A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.
• A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.
• A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.
• At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon. 2500 times last year alone legal gun owners stopped violent crime when confronted with it long before any police assistance ...


Okay those 2 examples I got from the internet.. now back to my own original post.

and lastly.. The guns the killer used weren't even his.. they were stolen from his mother who used them responsibly and enjoyed using them..Stealing is illegal, drugs are illegal, but these things still happen.. All gun control would do is create a bigger market for criminal originizations to sell weapons.

You liberals/socialist are so into making sure no one enjoys their lives to the fullest simply because you have no ambition to make anything out of your lives. I have no desire to live a piss poor life to stay on par with you sir..

I don't think the govt should be stripping us of any more rights.. if we are going to punish all people for a few peoples misuse of something we might a swell abolish all forms of socialist programs because they are all abused. But I've had many people tell me (and I agree) that you have to just deal with the people abusing the system because of the greater good of it helping those that actually do need it. I'd hate to be in my house staring down the barrel of a criminal with a gun and not have a gun to defend myself because someone else abusing one took that right away from me... Why is it none of you are trying to make abortion illegal? a million babies in America alone die every year to abortion.. 40-50 million globally... yet you will fight for that parent to have the choice to kill the baby or not.. and at the same time argue I can't have the choice to own a gun because 27 people died that I had nothing to do with?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote -DaGoN- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 8:39am
It doesn't have to be Genocide, it's about injustice Deadaim ?

And I doubt anyone on here is talking about making it illegal to own a gun.. but cmon you just don't need semi or fullautomatic rifles to protect yourself and your loved ones..

"make sure no one enjoys their lives to the fullest" do you really need an assault rifle for yourself to do that ? Here, gun clubs (don't know the real word for it in english, where you go on a shooting range) are still easily allowed, you just need to keep the weapons locked in a closet in that building..

And people obviously don't see abortion as "killing babies", you know you can't just break it down to this..maybe it's your opinion but I disagree and many others do, too..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Deadaim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 9:39am
Originally posted by Phenethylamine


penguin is my favorite iamgaming member of all time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote warfare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 9:41am
Originally posted by ax412

Regular people need weapons, when they've become fed up with the BS/corruption of their gov't and decide to end it.
See America 1770s and every other revolution that followed thereafter.
 
Agreed.  Some of you ask why have assault weapons...A few quotes from the Founding Fathers and others:
 

"A free people ought to be armed."
- George Washington

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
- George Washington

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense."
- John Adams

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."
- George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster

"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster

"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."
- James Madison

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
- James Madison

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison

"The ultimate authority resides in the people alone."
- James Madison

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."
- Richard Henry Lee

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker

"... arms ... discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.... Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them."
- Thomas Paine

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

" ... for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton

 

Do you realize that in about forty years, we'll have millions of old ladies running around with tatoos and pierced navels? O.o
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Deadaim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 9:42am
Originally posted by -DaGoN-

It doesn't have to be Genocide, it's about injustice Deadaim ?

And I doubt anyone on here is talking about making it illegal to own a gun.. but cmon you just don't need semi or fullautomatic rifles to protect yourself and your loved ones..

"make sure no one enjoys their lives to the fullest" do you really need an assault rifle for yourself to do that ? Here, gun clubs (don't know the real word for it in english, where you go on a shooting range) are still easily allowed, you just need to keep the weapons locked in a closet in that building..

And people obviously don't see abortion as "killing babies", you know you can't just break it down to this..maybe it's your opinion but I disagree and many others do, too..

you'd be surprised.. many people want all guns banned.. and realistically very few guns aren't semi auto.. 

I personally feel to live my live to the fullest I have freedom.. and to me freedom entails being able to do something I enjoy without being stripped of it by others.. so yes I do need an AR to enjoy my life to the fullest.. 

Locked up guns at a shooting range wont offer me any home protection..

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ax412 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by warfare

Originally posted by ax412

Regular people need weapons, when they've become fed up with the BS/corruption of their gov't and decide to end it.
See America 1770s and every other revolution that followed thereafter.
 
Agreed.  Some of you ask why have assault weapons...A few quotes from the Founding Fathers and others:
 

"A free people ought to be armed."
- George Washington

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
- George Washington

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense."
- John Adams

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."
- George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster

"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster

"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."
- James Madison

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
- James Madison

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison

"The ultimate authority resides in the people alone."
- James Madison

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."
- Richard Henry Lee

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker

"... arms ... discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.... Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them."
- Thomas Paine

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

" ... for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton

 


+1

Nice post as well Deadaim.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote -DaGoN- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 12:58pm
The actual problem, the reason for this thread.. it will never disappear or be solved by anything..but things will never get any better, more like things will get worse or stay as bad as now, if nothing is changed. Our stats here speak for themselves.
And all because you need your assault rifles etc. ? I haven't seen one good argument of why these shouldn't be banned. I can understand that you want to stay armed, although I see it different, I can understand you there. But weapons, designed to kill hundres in just minutes ? No, especially not at this cost..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JPINATOR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 1:13pm
Yeah that's my question, whats the need to have assault rifles, unless you're a collector of course, just curious since I'm not a gun connoisseur.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chisox666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 2:09pm
Why was the mom taking her mentally ill son out to the range (whether shooting or not) and exposing him to firearms? Poor judgement.

Why were the firearms not locked up, especially with a mentally ill person living under the same roof? Poor judgement.

There had to have been some tell-tale signs that this little f*cker was going off the deep end. These signs should've caused his mother to take extra precaution, which she obviously did not. It's possible that she did have her firearms under lock and key, and the son just stole the safe key, but I doubt that.

Where did he get the bullet-proof vest? His mother or on his own? I'm not aware of state or federal restrictions on purchasing body armor.

So many questions. So few answers...
get fragged

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Post Options Post Options   Quote drdeath2point0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 2:33pm
Automatic weapons are illegal... But there are ways around that to get them. Or make them automatic yourself. And I you're that desperate just make your own rifle...ie the aa-12 built by a Reggie and sold to the military
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chisox666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by JPINATOR

Yeah that's my question, whats the need to have assault rifles, unless you're a collector of course, just curious since I'm not a gun connoisseur.

Simply put JP, there is no need. I'm saying this and I have four (3 AR's and 1 AK). AR's and AK's are designed for war. Unless there is threat of war, there is no civilian need for these rifles.

There was a 10 year Federal AWB that started under Clinton in 94', and Bush decided in 04' to let that ban expire. Over the last 8 years, millions of AR-15's and Ak-47's have been pumped out in the US economy. There was a massive buying panic in 08' (once Obama won), and this year three separate times (Obama's reelection, after Colorado, right now). The current panic will not stop until new legislation has been brought forth.

The AR-15 is a reliable, highly customizable rifle platform. The parts are nearly entirely interchangeable, regardless of the manufacturer. Americans love them.

If the AWB never lapsed, I'd be for their being restricted. But that's not the case. With millions and millions circulating around the country, it's a whole different ballgame. The Fed has two choices when they push for an AWB:

1) No new AW's for civilians. Anything manufactured up to a certain date is grand-fathered in.

2) Ban AW's completely. No grand-fathering and no new production (except for military and LE).

I doubt the Federal government would take the latter approach because if you think there are a lot of shootings now, that will increase significantly with option #2. There are many out there who will not give up what they have now. A complete AW grab (no grandfather) will cause some to go over the edge.  What will the Fed do to try and satiate everyone? Offer an AWB buyback program? That would cost too much money. As some White House spokesperson just said, "It's a complex problem requiring a complex solution."

On top of the Fed, there is always the wild card known as state law. Illinois portrays this perfectly.  This state is neck deep in sh!tstorms caused by poor firearm legislation (stemming from corrupt anti-gun Chicago democrats). it would take a novel to detail the firearm issues at hand in IL right now that can be saved for another time....   

I foresee an AWB and a high-capacity magazine ban  (with grandfathering for both) being passed in the near future. Obama is not dumb and knows (at least senses) the repercussions for badly implemented policies. That is why he has treaded so carefully regarding the 2nd amendment.

What am I for? Tighter restrictions. Eliminate the private sales (which bypasses a NICS background check) loophole. Make every sale and transfer go through an FFL. Keep better mental health records and have those properly linked with NICS checks. The common denominator for all of these mass shootings is mental illness. These steps would be a good start.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chisox666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by drdeath2point0

Automatic weapons are illegal... But there are ways around that to get them. Or make them automatic yourself. And I you're that desperate just make your own rifle...ie the aa-12 built by a Reggie and sold to the military

An individual can acquire an automatic weapon if they are in the right state (that allows Class 3 weapons) and jump through all the ATF hoops. Or, like you stated, modify it yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 4:01pm
label me how u like deadaim, its ur opinion & ur welcome to it, but i fail to see how im being fake so feel free to indulge in a little more detail on that? i didnt say we should get rid of every gun, a total gun ban is unrealistic, i am in favor of better gun law control cuz it would help prevent **** like this.

Originally posted by Deadaim

the topic is american citizens gun control.. something many Americans don't want imposed on them.. and one of those big reasons is so they can't be mercilessly slaughtered and rounded up by the government... and you bring up the native Americans? One could say that is what the US govt did to them... I would agree and I would point out that most of the WARS happened in the 1600's before we even had a 2nd amendment..

most of the wars actually didn't start until after 1776 when the newly formed America started looking to expand. this is why alot of native americans sided with the British, because they had minimal interest in expanding and prior to the revolution, made treaties guaranteeing as much. it was also not just a US Govt effort, citizens routinely went out in hunting parties and slaughtered men women & children for little more than to see who could kill more indians. then there are events like the massacre at Wounded Knee. if u dont see this issue as prolonged genocide ur being naïve.

also Guantamo is US sovereign ground, its American soil, and it has nothing to do with us being armed but it is full of severe breaches of human rights comparable to what was seen in Germany (albeit on a smaller scale) nonetheless it operates because the sheep that are the American public are told to be afraid & like good little lemmings they follow & are afraid. fear led us to intern hundreds of thousands of citizens in WW2, it led us to commit hate crimes against any arab-looking american citizen after 9/11 and still feeds into our alienating them today. if u buy a gun out of necessity (like for your livelihood) thats one thing but the fact that gun sales have soared after events like this shooting, 9/11, even Obama's re-election for god's sake...people are just scared and its pathetic really
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sephiroth_V7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 5:08pm
Deadaim >>>>

Agree with him 100% on everything, not sure why everyone against him even trys to argue. Shows the difference between a realist and a closed minded home body. Think more people need to get away from the bigger cities to get a real grasp on life once in awhile.

His arguements have facts.... all the rebuttals are mostly opinions.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote -DaGoN- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 5:42pm
Ok people Seph just officially declared that Deadaim is 100 % right and any attempt to voice your own opinion and thoughts on the matter is useless and makes you close-minded, because his opinion is right and yours is wrong ! So please, please stop discussing.. :P

Agree with TX there, I think it's shocking to see how scared people really are, such absurd, ridiculous paranoias. I don't get why a simple handgun for your home isn't enough to fulfill your "necessity"..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phenethylamine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 7:23pm
steak knives and machetes are the same too
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JPINATOR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by chisox666



What am I for? Tighter restrictions. Eliminate the private sales (which bypasses a NICS background check) loophole. Make every sale and transfer go through an FFL. Keep better mental health records and have those properly linked with NICS checks. The common denominator for all of these mass shootings is mental illness. These steps would be a good start.
 


Thanks for the insight chisoxx, this post makes the most sense to me
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sephiroth_V7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by -DaGoN-


Ok people Seph just officially declared that Deadaim is 100 % right and any attempt to voice your own opinion and thoughts on the matter is useless and makes you close-minded, because his opinion is right and yours is wrong ! So please, please stop discussing.. :P

Agree with TX there, I think it's shocking to see how scared people really are, such absurd, ridiculous paranoias. I don't get why a simple handgun for your home isn't enough to fulfill your "necessity"..


explain to me how you're gonna keep guns out of a law breakers hands and I'll take it back. I will be waiting. If you can't, then what's the point of even discussing this? I like the fact I can defend myself from them.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TX2k7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2012 at 2:12am
Originally posted by Sephiroth_V7

Originally posted by -DaGoN-


Ok people Seph just officially declared that Deadaim is 100 % right and any attempt to voice your own opinion and thoughts on the matter is useless and makes you close-minded, because his opinion is right and yours is wrong ! So please, please stop discussing.. :P

Agree with TX there, I think it's shocking to see how scared people really are, such absurd, ridiculous paranoias. I don't get why a simple handgun for your home isn't enough to fulfill your "necessity"..


explain to me how you're gonna keep guns out of a law breakers hands and I'll take it back. I will be waiting. If you can't, then what's the point of even discussing this? I like the fact I can defend myself from them.

we can sure as hell do a better job of keeping them out of the hands of potential psychopaths, and chisox already dropped a good means to get it started...
Originally posted by chisox666

What am I for? Tighter restrictions. Eliminate the private sales (which bypasses a NICS background check) loophole. Make every sale and transfer go through an FFL. Keep better mental health records and have those properly linked with NICS checks. The common denominator for all of these mass shootings is mental illness. These steps would be a good start

the way u sound, its almost like u think we r tryn to take all ur guns away or something, surely ull admit that like alot of things in this country there is plenty of room for improvement in laws/regulations that would help prevent these types of tragedies from recurring.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sephiroth_V7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2012 at 4:45am
So don't give guns to retards. Not a gun ban issue its a retard issue. But guess what retarded or not when someone wants something they will get it. And limiting what types of guns won't matter either. Only takes one bullet to kill someone. Doesn't matter how fast you fire it. So like I said, ban and restrict all you want, but how you going to stop a criminal from breaking the law??

What needs to be done is add more guns. Arm the teachers. Raise security. Let only teachers control the locks and window shades for every classroom. Same can be done for public event centers. Instead of looking down on firearms for criminals let's look into guns for the innocent that could help defend others.

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