Observing the world around me, I see a near perfect habitat for life.  I also see the incredible evil that mankind is capable of.

"Omniscient" is the capability to know all things infinitely.  This is where the Alpha and Omega comes from in the Bible.  From the Jewish and Christian (many flavors) perspective, I struggle with the concept of creating mankind with the foreknowledge of the absolute horrors we woud commit against each other.  It defies logic to create a perfect garden (habitat) and then allow someone you already had a problem with come in and spoil it, especially when you supposedly already knew the outcome.

Argument 1: Get ready for "God moves in mysterious ways" responses.

Argument 2: Difficult to reconcile "wholly good" against the hebrew and christian bibles.  Jealous, vengeful, angry, etc. are used many times to describe God.

I too will be interested in how this thread develops.

There are so many variables to your arguement; my suggestion is look at peer reviewed articles on this subject first, This way you see experts opinions on the subject, what this will do is help you compare your points to someone who is an expert in the field, if you are in college there should be a database via online through your school. This will show you have done the research and make your arguements more valid.

Well if you are using APA or chicago style you need to cite those correctly im sure. good luck dude!

A greater power, makes the burden of daily life easier, when there is no one to turn to there is god, when you feel sad or seek guidance the easiest thing to do is pray to whomever you believe in. Think about it, if you had a personal problem who better to confide in then a being that cannot be seen or heard. It allows you to get things off your chest and relieve some of the burden or pain you feel. Evil presents itself when you have nothing *GOOD* left to believe in, whether it be god or yourself as an individual, 

Also the term necessary evil plays a role in many peoples lives. Sometimes you have to be bad for the greater good.

Consider that apparently mankind is the only sentient being on the planet.  Complete with long and short term memory, emotions, a conscience and a persistant curiosity.  It seems to me that the combination of these traits woud automatically force the creation of one or more deities.  We use these deities to fill in the gaps in our understanding and to assign fault or explain mysteries that have no other apparent answer.

It is impossible to prove a negative.  That means you can't prove something doesn't exist.  It occurs to me that an omnipotent and omniscient being would not be bound by what we may consider to be "wholly good", or what we may decide is right or wrong.  This entity would be free to function in any manner it sees fit with regard to manipulating the outcome of any given circumstance.

Evil for the greater good = Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Someone decided that it was better to drop nukes on the civilian population of our enemy than to risk another 250k military men.  It worked and many lives were saved, but at a terrible price.  I make no judgement here, but use this as an example for me to try to understand "the needs of the many" in my own mind.

See, there's the conundrum.  How can God allow this to happen?  We attribute good and bad things that happen to a God or to Evil.  I would suggest that sh1t just happens in nature.  It's that "if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there, does it make a sound?" argument.  Plate Tectonics or simple physics are not dependent on the presence of human or supreme beings.

Of course; group psychology, the horrors of war and the dumbing down of the masses are entirely dependent on human presence and human nature.  History, as short as it is, reveals that while a "person" is intelligent, "people" are dumb.  Entire countries have been swayed by fear and anger.  This led to some of the worst acts in human history.

If we're going to assume that there is in fact a supreme, omnipotent being that created all things, then by applying logic, we must also conclude that this entity created evil as well.

I've heard extreme far right evangelicals claim that "an evil spirit is using that person to destroy you".  Why can't that person be an asshole all on their own?

The 24 hour news cycle is filled with atrocities we commit against each other and our children.  As I get older, I struggle more and more with the concept of a supreme being.  I certainly struggle with the concept of a benevolent supreme being.  This is a matter I'm not settled with personally and suspect I never will be.

Evil can only exist because of good.

PS u seem to be making assumptions about God and his agenda but I think your stirring the pot to see if anything interesting floats to the surface. But if I were in your shoes I would consider asking myself the question - what is the question that im attempting to answer.

i agree with most of what you said. here are my thoughts

true "evil" doesn't exist. 

people doing "evil" is to better themselves in one way or another. having intelligence is the reason why we can distinguish what's right and what's wrong. also, you have to look at the environment. we learn right from wrong when we are toddlers so people born in the congo or thailand have a totally different version of what's right and what's wrong. that's when you get to lesser and greater evils. 

you have to rule out mental illnesses from this debate. even though society sees serial killers as being evil, they clearly have a mental illness that prevents them from functioning in society. 

religion was a way for our ancestors to agree on morals and to explain why we exist. you can say that the fear of death is what helped us evolve and ultimately create religion in the first place. religion was the first intelligent thing the human race did. if it wasn't for religion then morals wouldn't exist therefore villages, cities, and countries wouldn't have existed. religion isn't immune to "evil" and we can look at history as a reference. 

then why does he torment?

the question is why do you think or are u sure he is the tormentor? He gave man free will - man chooses his own path. Why create us at all? if you accept God and the notion that he made us in his own image then it explains why we are individuals each equipped with the tools to shape their lives. 

@ Tuna Morals existed before formal religions as did spirituality, but yes religion especially monostheism represents a major shift in human development. Perhaps is more accurate to say religion gave morality more authority.

explain this.  if he gave us free will, then what about our fate?  isn't that written in stone and cannot be changed?  what about little simple signs?  does he give them to remind you/torment you on past events/giving hints at the future?   it doesn't seem he does these out of love dude.  it seems he wants to remind you of things that have long since past...a torment...

 

Perhaps I misunderstood the question, but let me clarify what I believe you asked and then my answer.

 

In your initial post you say "...the existence of evil has been regarded as the most potent rational objection to theistic belief...".  You then give examples of the two main arguments for this disbelief: The Logical Problem and The Evidential Problem, which essentially says God and Evil cannot logically coexist.  And finally, the conclusion you give is - There does not exist an omnipotent, omniscient, wholly good being.

 

 

So correct me if I misunderstood but you are looking for a rebuttal to this conclusion, right?  In other words, you are seeking a counter-argument that would refute the conclusion that "there is no God".

 

My answer is two-fold:

1.  First, the question itself is rigged, so to speak. One cannot, with scientific proof, prove or disprove the existence of God in a wholly rational, logical, scientific way because humanity's belief in such a God or Gods is entirely subjective.  (All this leads to is endless talking in circles)

 

2.  However, if you absolutely insist on trying to make this argument (I suppose your teacher WILL insist ), then it seems to me there is (at least) one reality-based way of doing so. 

 

 Since the crux of the argument Against rests on the assertion that it is impossible for there to be a dual-existence of God and Evil, you could show that this quality of duality is, in fact, seen everywhere throughout our natural world.  From the tiniest atomic particle to the endless cosmos, duality and seeming contradiction, symmetry, and balance are fundamental to the universe.  I gave a few examples of this seeming contradiction : matter-antimatter, energy/dark energy, positive/negative atomic particles.    Duality is consistent and compatible with many mysterious phenomena in our universe so the dual nature of Good and Evil is entirely compatible with this fundamental fact of life.

 

 

So, to answer your last three questions - if, IF you believe what I just told you then to be consistent the answer is NO God cannot destroy evil, He cannot do everything, and  He did not create everything.  God would be to the Devil what matter is to antimatter, what negative is to positive, etc.  He would be in essence, the naturally existing counter-part to his opposite, the Devil. And, the Devil would be, literally, the anti-christ

 

 

 

 

k i'll do my best but its 0215 and my brain is numb. Free will is bestowed on man but man is not God man is a mortal being. The only things written in stone afaik is birth, death and the afterlife. Hence your fate is in your own hands, live as God intended and your fate will be to enjoy the fruits of your labour in heaven - thats the choice, the way, the light and the truth! The future. The fate you are talking of is this an earthly one?

Whilst youre earthbound im pretty sure God doesnt send us messages and tourment us but someone else whose agenda is for us to reject God might  Again you need to give me specifics on the simple signs, past events hinting at the future and tourments. I cant answer what I dont understand but he tells you of the future he has prepared for us all "out of love". Maybe the tourment comes through temptation, disobedience and a lack of discipline - truly universal human frailties. But im second guessing you here m8

Stop talking about your family like that. 

lol 2 true! He was a coward who took the cowards way out. So lets just say he indebted to some +30 million which means he couldnt pay the ferryman ...hopefully 

in a way, the concept of good and evil is a dualistic  way to divide things around  an observer.

 

As mr. Zacharias in the previous video gave the example of the boy and a father: the father pointed another country in sincere belief that it was evil country full of evil people and they should be killed. On that another country's hill same time there could be a son and father pointing back to them, saying same things - so which country or people would be evil and which would be the good?

 

To make a bit more harsh example,  in world war I, there has been flies, maggots and rats feasting on millions of corpses on the killing fields. And for them it may have been a paradise on earth - for human kind it was quite the oppsosite. The very place and time was same for both  - it's just about the state of mind and being.

 

I bet Jesus Christ, Mother Theresa or Gandhi stomped on some bugs during their lives - in bugs point of view their feet were the world's ending ( oh, I loved to continue with this  )

 

Now, one could say that Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden etc. monstrous persons in history, are persons who were pure evil. One could also suggest, that they more or less were like those fathers& sons, who's were exposed to causes and conditions that formed their minds to think and make decisions they.. made.

 

When a mind is first subjected to ignorance, (as that father's son on the previous video), then aversion and hate follows. This we tend to label as "evil" or "good", depending on which side of the border we stand.

 

My point here is not to deny or challenge the concept of good&evil stated in christian context (which I believe in here it's mostly spoken), just bring out another view of the matter.