The problem of evil |
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Ether404
Forum Moderator The Jackhammer Joined: 20 Feb 2009 Location: Freaking Jersey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1293 |
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Topic: The problem of evil Posted: 15 Oct 2011 at 8:57pm |
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explain this. if he gave us free will, then what about our fate? isn't that written in stone and cannot be changed? what about little simple signs? does he give them to remind you/torment you on past events/giving hints at the future? it doesn't seem he does these out of love dude. it seems he wants to remind you of things that have long since past...a torment...
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If Gravity is a "P" and the Sun is an "H", it makes a FFFFFFF.
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warfare
Ultra Member Joined: 29 Sep 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 326 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Oct 2011 at 9:18pm | ||||
Perhaps I misunderstood the question, but let me clarify what I believe you asked and then my answer.
In your initial post you say "...the existence of evil has been regarded as the most potent rational objection to theistic belief...". You then give examples of the two main arguments for this disbelief: The Logical Problem and The Evidential Problem, which essentially says God and Evil cannot logically coexist. And finally, the conclusion you give is - There does not exist an omnipotent, omniscient, wholly good being.
So correct me if I misunderstood but you are looking for a rebuttal to this conclusion, right? In other words, you are seeking a counter-argument that would refute the conclusion that "there is no God".
My answer is two-fold:
1. First, the question itself is rigged, so to speak. One cannot, with scientific proof, prove or disprove the existence of God in a wholly rational, logical, scientific way because humanity's belief in such a God or Gods is entirely subjective. (All this leads to is endless talking in circles)
2. However, if you absolutely insist on trying to make this argument (I suppose your teacher WILL insist ), then it seems to me there is (at least) one reality-based way of doing so.
Since the crux of the argument Against rests on the assertion that it is impossible for there to be a dual-existence of God and Evil, you could show that this quality of duality is, in fact, seen everywhere throughout our natural world. From the tiniest atomic particle to the endless cosmos, duality and seeming contradiction, symmetry, and balance are fundamental to the universe. I gave a few examples of this seeming contradiction : matter-antimatter, energy/dark energy, positive/negative atomic particles. Duality is consistent and compatible with many mysterious phenomena in our universe so the dual nature of Good and Evil is entirely compatible with this fundamental fact of life.
So, to answer your last three questions - if, IF you believe what I just told you then to be consistent the answer is NO God cannot destroy evil, He cannot do everything, and He did not create everything. God would be to the Devil what matter is to antimatter, what negative is to positive, etc. He would be in essence, the naturally existing counter-part to his opposite, the Devil. And, the Devil would be, literally, the anti-christ
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Do you realize that in about forty years, we'll have millions of old ladies running around with tatoos and pierced navels? O.o
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Heavenly_tRiNiTy
Team Deep TEA TIME!!! Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Oct 2011 at 9:33pm | ||||
k i'll do my best but its 0215 and my brain is numb. Free will is bestowed on man but man is not God man is a mortal being. The only things written in stone afaik is birth, death and the afterlife. Hence your fate is in your own hands, live as God intended and your fate will be to enjoy the fruits of your labour in heaven - thats the choice, the way, the light and the truth! The future. The fate you are talking of is this an earthly one? Whilst youre earthbound im pretty sure God doesnt send us messages and tourment us but someone else whose agenda is for us to reject God might Again you need to give me specifics on the simple signs, past events hinting at the future and tourments. I cant answer what I dont understand but he tells you of the future he has prepared for us all "out of love". Maybe the tourment comes through temptation, disobedience and a lack of discipline - truly universal human frailties. But im second guessing you here m8
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Cos I'm Wonderman...I'll take that knife and shove it up your a$$!
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Heavenly_tRiNiTy
Team Deep TEA TIME!!! Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 15 Oct 2011 at 9:53pm | ||||
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Cos I'm Wonderman...I'll take that knife and shove it up your a$$!
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Helscream
Team iAM Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Location: Dallas,TX Online Status: Offline Posts: 227 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 2:49am | ||||
Hey TX2k7. Not sure if your finished with your paper (probably are done with it by now). But this man is Ravi Zacharias. He is about the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to proving the point of what evil is and where it originates from. Keep in mind when the question of Good and Evil is mentioned. Is always has to do about a PERSON or PERSON'S. If you want to chat I can give you some pointers or answer some questions of yours the best I can. I study stuff like this on my own time. So if you ever want to start up a chat room and discuss this matter feel free. |
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ut3lve
Godlike Member Joined: 23 Jul 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1038 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 12:27pm | ||||
what a load of horse sh1t!
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danjel3+5
Godlike Member Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 951 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 12:39pm | ||||
Stop talking about your family like that.
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ut3lve
Godlike Member Joined: 23 Jul 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1038 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 12:52pm | ||||
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lDEATHl-MACHINE
Team iAM Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Location: Right by JP's Online Status: Offline Posts: 1911 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 2:14pm | ||||
being evil is good, so whats the problem? jk
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I am an Exit!psn KuPcAKeDESTR0YER.NoTh1nG__FaCe.Y1NsSeVeRiTy.SuM_RANDOMN008. Portal sits deep within the eye. The eye of Y1NsSeVeRiTy rewards understanding.XBLgametag lDEATHl MACHINE
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Heavenly_tRiNiTy
Team Deep TEA TIME!!! Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 2011 at 3:47pm | ||||
idk but i'd say the problem is in the payback! ask Hitler, Bin Laden, Saddam and Gaddaffi
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Cos I'm Wonderman...I'll take that knife and shove it up your a$$!
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lDEATHl-MACHINE
Team iAM Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Location: Right by JP's Online Status: Offline Posts: 1911 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 2011 at 4:27pm | ||||
hitler didnt get pay'd back hard enough though
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I am an Exit!psn KuPcAKeDESTR0YER.NoTh1nG__FaCe.Y1NsSeVeRiTy.SuM_RANDOMN008. Portal sits deep within the eye. The eye of Y1NsSeVeRiTy rewards understanding.XBLgametag lDEATHl MACHINE
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Heavenly_tRiNiTy
Team Deep TEA TIME!!! Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 12:50pm | ||||
lol 2 true! He was a coward who took the cowards way out. So lets just say he indebted to some +30 million which means he couldnt pay the ferryman ...hopefully
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Cos I'm Wonderman...I'll take that knife and shove it up your a$$!
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summ3rblink
Ultra Member Joined: 01 Mar 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 677 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 4:50am | ||||
Just to take another kind of view on this:
in a way, the concept of good and evil is a dualistic way to divide things around an observer.
As mr. Zacharias in the previous video gave the example of the boy and a father: the father pointed another country in sincere belief that it was evil country full of evil people and they should be killed. On that another country's hill same time there could be a son and father pointing back to them, saying same things - so which country or people would be evil and which would be the good?
To make a bit more harsh example, in world war I, there has been flies, maggots and rats feasting on millions of corpses on the killing fields. And for them it may have been a paradise on earth - for human kind it was quite the oppsosite. The very place and time was same for both - it's just about the state of mind and being.
I bet Jesus Christ, Mother Theresa or Gandhi stomped on some bugs during their lives - in bugs point of view their feet were the world's ending ( oh, I loved to continue with this )
Now, one could say that Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden etc. monstrous persons in history, are persons who were pure evil. One could also suggest, that they more or less were like those fathers& sons, who's were exposed to causes and conditions that formed their minds to think and make decisions they.. made.
When a mind is first subjected to ignorance, (as that father's son on the previous video), then aversion and hate follows. This we tend to label as "evil" or "good", depending on which side of the border we stand.
My point here is not to deny or challenge the concept of good&evil stated in christian context (which I believe in here it's mostly spoken), just bring out another view of the matter.
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HanFei
Team KmA Joined: 26 Apr 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 798 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 10:23pm | ||||
Sorry for pulling this thread out of the ashes. I assume your paper is done and hope you did well. The problem of evil does not need to be satisfied by evil derived from free will. Natural evils work just as well, since God could have created a world with free will buy without Tsunamis, Earthquakes, Floods, AIDs, etcetera. |
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lDEATHl-MACHINE
Team iAM Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Location: Right by JP's Online Status: Offline Posts: 1911 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 2011 at 1:23am | ||||
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I am an Exit!psn KuPcAKeDESTR0YER.NoTh1nG__FaCe.Y1NsSeVeRiTy.SuM_RANDOMN008. Portal sits deep within the eye. The eye of Y1NsSeVeRiTy rewards understanding.XBLgametag lDEATHl MACHINE
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Tacote_del_Orno
Team Phoenyx Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Location: Kansas City, MO Online Status: Offline Posts: 198 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 2011 at 2:37am | ||||
Going thru non theist door. Good (God/s) and Evil (Devil) is a concept of Human, there is no good or evil. Human is a pack/clan/unit oriented animal with a complicated thought process, as such we needed to set up rules of what is and isn't acceptable behavior within the group. Some where along the line the idea of a deity came about and has since been synonymous with good(dont want to think to much into it so i'll leave it at that). Good cannot exist without evil and vice versa, simply because we cannot define one without the other, plus i like Warfare's second to last paragraph...u look for it. What it really comes down to is Morals which are embedded in us by society. As Kuppy Kake(certainly has a way with words XP) basically put it, we are a product of where we grew up, whether we were raised by 2 parents, 1 parent, other family(blood related or foster), or on our own, we live studying society and grasp our own concepts of what is acceptable.
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